CHRIS KENNY: The Federal Energy Minister Angus Taylor now joins me live from, looks like Canberra to me, yeah in the nation's capital. Quite a bit to catch up with on in your portfolio area, Angus, but first up this move from China today, essentially attacking wine imports from Australia. Accusing us of dumping. This is yet again Beijing smacking down Canberra for daring to challenge it on a range of areas, isn't it?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well it's very disappointing, Chris. I mean we know our agriculture sector, our farming sector is one of the most competitive in the world. It can't afford to sell at below its cost. But it keeps its costs low, that's how it is successful and it produces great products. The idea that it's responsible for dumping, I've got to say, it's really bewildering. I find it extraordinary and of course we reject it.

CHRIS KENNY: Well it's dishonest, isn't it? China are playing a game here. They're trying to hurt Australia. They're trying to bully Australia. They're trying to show the rest of the world what happens when you challenge China. And our wine industry is going to pay a price.

ANGUS TAYLOR: It's just not right, that's the point. And to make these accusations when they're just factually incorrect is disappointing. And you know, I mean I've been in the agriculture sector all my life, and the idea that we'd dump is just extraordinary. We don't. We have to sell at a profit because that's the only way we survive. Farmers are not subsidised as they are in the European Union or other parts of the world, and so they have to be able to sell it above their cost to make money. That's how it works. So it's just wrong.

CHRIS KENNY: So what is China playing at?

ANGUS TAYLOR: You've got to ask them, you've got to ask them that. But I mean I think we've been pretty clear, and I noticed the Trade Minister earlier today was very clear that this is disappointing, and we don't accept the accusations.

CHRIS KENNY: But they're bullying us. They're trying to pressure Australia. They're using trade as a weapon against us because they don't like us banning Huawei from 5G. They don't like us pointing out their illegal activities in the South China Sea. They don't like us asking for an independent international investigation into the origins of the coronavirus.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, we stand up for ourselves, Chris. And as a smaller country in the region we have to. We have to stand up for our industries like agriculture, as I was just saying. We have to stand up and make sure that our telecommunications system and all our other essential services are safe and are secure. That's the right thing for us to do, and you know, we put a line in the sand on those issues and we'll continue to put a line in the sand on those issues.

CHRIS KENNY: Speaking about industries that are important, you're in the energy portfolio of course. There's been a big focus for a long while on gas as the transition fuel because it works well with renewables, you can cut in and cut out with your generation when the renewables are either on stream or not on stream. It produces less than half the carbon dioxide emissions as coal. Some sensible people on the Labor Party side support gas development in Australia. There's too many bans on exploration and exploitation in Australia. Are you worried that the gas industry is going to be forced out of existence in this country? Because it seems the Labor Party and the Greens are now completely opposed to even gas. They seem to think that we can go to 100 per cent renewables.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I mean the benefits of gas are very clear. You've made the case very well. I would add one thing to that. It's not only flexible and dispatchable. That means when you flick the switch it can be there whether the sun's shining or not. It's also industrial. It can be used as a feedstock to produce critical chemicals like ammonia which we use for fertiliser in agriculture. It's absolutely crucial for those industries like agriculture and many other you know, plastics and so on. So it is a really essential feedstock. It's an essential source of energy, flexible and dispatchable. And you are dead right, Chris, the Labor Party don't know if they're Arthur or Martha on this. But what is very clear is that Albanese and Butler are not supporting the gas industry. And I've got to say, yes, it is a worry. We need bipartisanship on the future of the gas industry. It is crucial for this country. It's crucial for manufacturing. It's crucial for affordable, reliable energy for small businesses and households, and we need both sides of politics supporting it.

CHRIS KENNY: But the ACCC is saying we're still paying higher prices for gas here than what people overseas are paying for our gas.

ANGUS TAYLOR: What the ACCC has said is that the spot prices, the short-term prices for gas have come down dramatically. They're less than half of what they were a short time ago. Most of that, well much of that at least had happened before COVID hit. And that is being significantly passed through. But the most important point they've made is that it's not being passed through yet in the long-term contracts for manufacturers and for others. Those longer term contracts are extremely important for our manufacturing industry. We want to see those reductions in prices that have happened internationally passed through to our manufacturers and other uses, and we'll continue to put the pressure on. Look, by the end of this year, the current Heads of Agreement we have with the gas suppliers which helped to bring down prices substantially a few years back will come to an end. We'll be looking to use that expiry as an opportunity to ensure that we do get that pass through, and that we have mechanisms in place which ensure that the gas industry does the right thing by its customers. But you know, we've also got to make sure we do the right thing by our gas industry and state governments haven't. State governments have prevented developments from happening like the Narrabri development in New South Wales. We want to see that go ahead. We've seen a moratorium, a blanket moratorium in Victoria. The good news is that's starting to come off in the middle of next year. But we do have to make sure that state governments and other government policy is conducive to ensuring we have enough affordable, reliable gas being produced here in Australia. And you've got to remember Julia Gillard stood on those gas trains, those export gas trains up in Gladstone about a decade ago, opened them up and didn't think twice about making sure there was enough supply. We have to make sure there is enough supply to meet domestic and export needs.

CHRIS KENNY: Thanks for joining us, Angus.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks for having me, Chris.