DEB KNIGHT: Alright, let's dive into it with Angus Taylor and Joel Fitzgibbon. Lots to cover, of course, a lot of big news breaking through the course of the week. Fellas, good afternoon. Angus, hello to you.

ANGUS TAYLOR: G'day, Deb. G'day, Joel.

DEB KNIGHT: Hey Joel.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: G'day, Deb, Angus.

DEB KNIGHT: Now I want to start with Beirut because the scenes, just awful, devastating, hard to wrap your head around. And the explosion that happened in Beirut, it's raised fresh concerns about the massive stockpile of ammonium nitrate in Newcastle. Locals are now calling for it to be moved out of Newcastle to the Hunter where it's used in the local coal mines. Joel, you're the Member for Hunter and the Shadow Resources Minister, do you think this stockpile should be moved? Because at the moment, it's just three kms from the CBD of Newcastle.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Can I, first of all, Deb, just quickly express my sympathy for all Australians of Lebanese heritage, and of course, we are all thinking of their families back at home. Yeah, look, of course this is going to emerge now as a debate in Newcastle and the Hunter region. That plant, of course, has been there for more than 50 years. It employs 200 people or more directly, and lots and lots of contractors around the Valley. I think we've got to be very careful about comparing the high quality facility working on Kooragang Island, which faces some of the most stringent safety guidelines and laws in the world, with what has happened in effectively what is a failed state, Lebanon. I mean, you don't have welders working around the stockpile. The government there has been negligent in just stockpiling that product there for I think up to 10 years it's been now since they confiscated it. We do have very stringent standards here, and I think the comparison is a dangerous one to make.

DEB KNIGHT: Are you confident, Angus, as Energy Minister, that they we are safe here in Australia? That the storage of ammonium nitrate, not just in Newcastle but in other Australian areas, is up to the stricter standards here? Because in Newcastle, that stockpile is four times the amount that went up in Beirut.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yeah. Look, like Joel, Deb, can I express my sympathies to the family of the Australian who was confirmed killed in that blast, but 230,000 Australians who have got Lebanese heritage and many of them will be affected by this. But look, like Joel, we have very strong regulation. It's run at the state government level, and I think it's important to note that. And this is very different. I mean, this was a Hezbollah-controlled port where the ammonium nitrate had been sitting there for six years next to a fireworks dump. So it's a very, very different situation. Ammonia is widely used across Australia for fertiliser, for farmers, as well as in the mining industry. And it's a really important product. Now we do have very strong regulation, as Joel says, and I'm sure the State Government is looking very carefully to make sure that's right. But the situation is very, very different.

DEB KNIGHT: Now, the Commonwealth has committed $2 million to help Lebanon in this recovery, but as we saw from the visit by the French President Emmanuel Macron, many of the locals say they are really concerned about the Lebanese Government's ability to use aid properly, calling them corrupt, saying don't donate money because it's not going to be used effectively. What are your thoughts, Angus?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well the money is not going to the Lebanese Government. The money is going to trusted aid partners. $1 million dollars to the World Food Programme and $1 million dollars to the Red Cross. And they are proven, very effective providers of aid, and they'll provide the food, the medical care, and the essential items. So that's how we're doing it and I think that is the right way to do it. They're very experienced in disaster relief like this.

DEB KNIGHT: Yeah, which is good to hear. Now COVID, of course, what's happening in Victoria. So concerning. We've got 450 deaths - 450 new cases, rather, announced today from Victoria, which is better than the 700-plus that we've seen during earlier in the week and last week too. But the economic impact of this, of the stage 4 lockdown in Victoria, it's going to be massive. Angus, a lot of confusion about businesses who has to close, who needs to reduce their workforce. Are you confident that it's being done well by the Victorian Government? Even the boss of Australia Post revealing today she only found she'd had to cut back staff in Melbourne this morning because of a website.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yeah, look, it's an incredibly difficult situation down in Victoria. I was able to talk to my parliamentary colleagues down there, I think they're all sharing the pain of such a difficult situation. Look, our role in this is to make sure we support all Australians - from the Federal Government - all Australians during such a difficult time. And of course, particularly in Victoria, we've made some significant changes to the JobSeeker eligibility. We expect that JobSeeker will be used by not what was expected one million Victorians, but 1.5 million now because of what's happened. And we've got to make sure that they get the support they need and that's exactly what we're doing with those changes.

DEB KNIGHT: Yeah. Well the Victorian Government has contacted Australia Post now to say that that issue will be fixed. So obviously things are being moved along, it's an evolving situation. But Joel, the government obviously announcing JobSeeker, but also changes to JobKeeper to make it more flexible. That's a welcome move, isn't it?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well the Government does need to be agile. This is a moving feast, and it's not getting better. It's potentially getting worse, Deb, with the spread in Victoria. We haven't seen the worst of the economic fallout of COVID-19 yet, so agility is important. So is a level of bipartisanship. We need the states together with the Commonwealth working as one. No one pretends any of this is easy. There are no right or wrong answers on the balance between health and the economy, except to say that we do need to follow the expert advice in this area. I do think we need a longer term plan for economic recovery. Hopefully, we will get beyond the health side of COVID in the not too distant future, and it's going to take a lot of bipartisanship and a lot of smart, innovative and hard work to get the economy back on track.

DEB KNIGHT: And just on the rate of JobKeeper, Angus, could we see that rate change too, because it is supposed to go down to $1200 next month?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well the main thing is to make sure that businesses and most importantly, people who are eligible for it or need it, are eligible for it. And that's what we've done. I should've said the JobKeeper when I was using those numbers earlier, not JobSeeker. But look, that's the main thing. We've got to make sure that the money is getting out there to the people who need it, and that's exactly what we'll be doing through the eligibility changes we've made.

DEB KNIGHT: And Finance Minister Mathias Cormann was suggesting that the rate is not set in stone, so that is good to see that you have got that agility and the ability to move with the evolving situation. And look, obviously, it's such a difficult time for everyone and we need to have real accountability and real questions asked and answered too as we go along through this. But why can't Parliament sit virtually? I know that the self-imposed quarantine that's been brought in and suggested for Parliament when you resume on 24 August. But surely, Angus, if other governments overseas can do it, why can't we do virtual Parliament, virtual Question Time here in Australia?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, we'll be sitting physically on 24 August as you rightly said. Now to do that-

DEB KNIGHT: But very strict measures for a lot of the Victorian MPs to either quarantine in the ACT for 14 days or do it at home. I mean couldn't they stay at home in their electorates and do it via Zoom?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, look, ultimately the way Parliament votes, and that's where the rubber hits the road on these things, is a matter for the President and the Speaker. And their view at this point is that there's some real challenges in that. So we're meeting in person on 24 August. And you're quite right, the Victorians in particular will have to go into 14 days of isolation to be able to meet the requirements of the ACT. Look, it's crucial that we don't further spread COVID-19 by sitting in Parliament, but we think we can do it by sticking to those rules, and that's exactly what we'll be doing on 24 August.

DEB KNIGHT: How would you go with the technology, Joel? Do you reckon could manage a Zoom call? I know it kinda is fraught at times, and people are sort of saying: ‘put the mute on, we can hear you talking.’ But is it something that's feasible, and should be at least considered?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Deb, three months ago I didn't know what Zoom was.

DEB KNIGHT: Well, you're not alone. Not Robinson Crusoe there.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Now, I'm a Zoom expert. And having done so many Zoom calls, I do doubt the capacity of that technology to have a properly functioning Parliament. Obviously, our response to COVID has to be first and foremost, taking the expert medical advice. But gee, our democracy is very, very important as well. And while ever we can meet together, we should do so. And of course, as Angus has said, we have set up a facility so that people from Victoria can come in via electronic means. I think the more we can meet, the better. A functioning democracy does require face-to-face interaction wherever and whenever we can.

DEB KNIGHT: Alright. Now, the issue of merchandise. I want to end on this, because we've seen New South Wales Labor MP Jo Haylen spotted out and about, handing out these personalised bottles of hand sanitiser with her face emblazoned on them. And so is the New South Wales Minister Adam Marshall. We know with the face masks, a lot of companies are putting their own logos on the face masks too. And the Victorian Chief Health Officer Dr Brett Sutton - who's back at work today, just quietly as well - but he can be found on face masks, even on bed sheets. So, tell me, if you could have your own face on a piece of merchandise, Angus Taylor, what would it be?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, Deb, I've got in front of me right here, a constituent sent me a facemask with my name on it. And it's convinced me we shouldn't go into mass production. We absolutely shouldn't for this one. But the one I really want to see is Joel's face on a Labor LEAN t-shirt. It has to be green, Joel. It's got to be green.

[Laughter]

DEB KNIGHT: Joel, would you go there?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: He couldn't help himself. Look, I reached my destiny many years ago, Deb, when my face first appeared on a beer coaster. No better form of campaigning than to display your name and photo on a beer coaster. But if we really want to encourage the take up of PPE amongst the community, facemasks, et cetera, I suspect a way of not doing it is to have politicians plastered on them.

DEB KNIGHT: Yeah, you're right, you're right. It's probably not a good measure at all if you want to encourage everyone to do it. Good on you, fellas. Great to talk. Thanks again.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks, Deb.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Thanks, team.

ENDS