LEON BYNER: As there is an election very soon, everybody wants to know what are the policy changes that have been announced by either side going to mean for me as a consumer? What will it mean for electricity? What will it mean for the automobile industry and associated parties? And what will it mean for agriculture/farming? Now, the data to which we are about to refer comes from a bloke who is one of Australia's most respected advisors on climate change, emissions trading and the economic impact of current and future climate and energy policies. Now, he worked for the Hawke government and his work is peer reviewed - that is this particular report. But it means that whoever you vote for should be telling you, whether it's Bill Shorten or the Prime Minister or either side of politics, what it'll mean when they enact their policy of emissions because a lot of people are saying: hey, we have to do things about climate change. That's not the debate here. It is: if you do this, what happens over here; if you do that, what happens over there. They are the questions, surely, the answers you'd want. Let's talk to Energy Minister Angus Taylor. Angus, good morning.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks for having me, Leon. Great to be here.

LEON BYNER: Now, this work from Brian Fisher, what does it tell us about what you guys are doing with the emissions if you win the next election?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, look, what's very clear in this modelling is that if you set a reasonable target - and we think 26 per cent, our target, is a reasonable one - then you can achieve it with minimal costs. It doesn't model the actual policy, it doesn't model our policies, but it does model the targets. But if you start increasing that target in the short timeframe between now and 2030 - and it's short in transforming the economy - then you put a wrecking ball through the economy; and in particular, like you see with Labor's 45 per cent target is a big impact on agriculture, on manufacturing, on mining, on transport because you simply can't get the efficiency gains that a lot of your listeners will be out there doing every day - that's looking for ways to be more efficient in their use of electricity. You can get a certain amount of that each year, but if you push too fast, you just have to shut things down now.

LEON BYNER: Now-

ANGUS TAYLOR: And so what we've tried to do with our targets is set a level, which is not free, Leon, it's important to understand that [inaudible].

LEON BYNER: What's it going to cost the consumer?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, we announced just two weeks ago a package of policies which will cost $3.5 billion and we're putting this through the budget and through the taxpayers - it's all budgeted and laid out. $2 billion for the Emission Reduction Fund, extending the life of that which focuses particularly on land management. There's money invested in hydro projects, which are important for making sure when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow, we've still got power. There's energy efficiency initiatives for small businesses to help them to find those efficiencies that I was just talking about. So, we've laid that out. What we haven't seen yet is what Labor is going to do to reach the 45 per cent [inaudible]-

LEON BYNER: Well, let me ask you about your side here. Now, the Brian Fisher report puts a value on what you've actually got to do to get the achievements that you're looking for with lowering emissions. Even under your model, we're going to have to pay more. It's going to cost...

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, look-

LEON BYNER: It's going to cost in jobs, isn't it?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Nothing is free. Nothing is free. And that's the point about this debate. We accept there is a cost and we are laying out that cost. We've already laid out that cost, in great detail down to the last tonne of carbon dioxide we're avoiding. We've laid that out very, very clearly. We're calling on the Labor to lay out what they're planning to do, but because the numbers are many, many times higher in Fisher's report.

LEON BYNER: Alright. In plain language, whatever either side do will also affect the automobile industry and the farming sector. Do you have any idea what either sector will have to do to get to your targets?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, look, let's look at the farming sector. There's no doubt farmers have had to deal with native vegetation laws in the last 20 or 30 years. I've seen that myself, I'm a farmer, living a farm life. My family have farmed for five generations, so we get that. The good news in the Coalition's policies is we've got an Emission Reduction Fund which focuses on incenting farmers to manage their land in positive ways that increases [inaudible].

LEON BYNER: Yeah. What will the farmers to have to do in order to get to your emissions targets?

ANGUS TAYLOR: For instance, we've got programs running that improves the way we burn savannah in the north of Australia and farmers are intended to achieve those. Now, it's not free and we are pursuing that because we think it...

LEON BYNER: Will the farmers have to pay more?

ANGUS TAYLOR: No, no. In that case, they're being paid to do it. There's an incentive to do it and you know, there's two ways of doing this current fix and we're trying to use a lot of carrot and there is a cost. But look, Leon it is important there's a choice here, and the alternative is a 45 per cent target and what Fisher's model tells us is that's a wrecking ball. It's a wrecking ball - you have no choice but to slash agriculture, to slash mining, to slash manufacturing, to slash transport: 9 per cent cut in the transport sector. I mean these sectors are the lifeblood of the South Australian economy and yet you have no choice when you up the target to do that. That's why we've picked what we believe to be a sensible, balanced, proportionate target. It meets our international obligations; it doesn't trash the economy; it doesn't trash jobs; it doesn't trash- $9000 hit to wages under the 45 per cent Labor target. We're just not going to do that. Coalition governments don't do these crazy things.

LEON BYNER: I want to ask you something about the power companies because there are situations where ordinary consumers listening today will have or will sign a market contract with one of the providers. The contract will likely be very much advantageous to the supplier, not the buyer, which in itself should be withdrawn under consumer law, but that's not happened. And then they'll sign up for a price; then they'll get an increase and when they work out what they've saved, they're almost back to normal or worse off. And yet when they ring the company and say: well, I'm sorry but this isn't suitable, I'm getting out they'll want an exit fee and you think: hang on, a minute how is that lawful? Are you going to change this?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yeah. So we are absolutely...

LEON BYNER: How?

ANGUS TAYLOR: From the first of July, every offer made to a customer will have to be made relative to a single reference price. So for instance, if you get an offer from a company for a 15 per cent discount, which is often how they- typically how they describe their contracts, and you compare it with a company from a 25 per cent discount at the moment, under the current system, you're not comparing apples with apples, so it's hard to know which one's...

LEON BYNER: Yeah I know, but my point is simply you sign up to these contracts, Angus, and they're actually so unfair because what you thought you were getting and what you sign for they're able to change and you've got to pay to get out of it.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, no. Look, to be frank with you, first of all, first of July reference price will be common. So it'll be much easier to know whether you've got the right deal; you'll be less likely to end up on the wrong contract, as you described. The second thing is frankly, if you ended up on a contract different from what you expected, ring up the energy company [inaudible]...

LEON BYNER: Hang on a minute. No, hang on. We sign- the point I'm making is...

ANGUS TAYLOR: And if they have been misled- this is what we're asking, you need to ring the relevant authority and that'll be chased. They cannot provide misleading and deceptive marketing to you.

LEON BYNER: What about the law of unfair contracts? Why do we even allow an energy company to sign somebody up to something that's blatantly unfair and if they want to fix it, for them to go to court costs an absolute poultice? That's not fair.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well look, you know, we've been changing the rules to deal with exactly these situations and you know, one example of where it's completely unfair is when people make a payment a day or two late, Leon, and they get hit back up to the original standing offer price. In practice that means they end up paying 30 per cent more.

LEON BYNER: Why isn't that illegal? Why isn't that illegal?

ANGUS TAYLOR: We've changed the rules, we changed the rules and we've been working through, based on the ACCC's report, which- excellent report they did for us recently. We are going through bit by bit looking at all these areas where the electricity companies and the gas companies...

LEON BYNER: Right. I noticed the ACCC did recommend that the subsidies for solar and even feed-in tariffs be seriously looked at to reduce or get rid of. How do you feel about that?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, they are coming off and they're coming off because the technology is getting cheaper anyway. So, you know, and look I- there's nothing wrong with people putting solar on their roofs, go for your life. But the technology is getting cheaper so the subsidies are coming off. They're coming off at what we believe is a reasonable pace.

LEON BYNER: What about the input tariffs, though, which are going down?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, that's a state government issue. The state government set the input tariffs, not us. So that's really a question for them. But the federal government subsidy scheme is coming off in the coming years. It should because the technology cost is coming down and now, our real challenge Leon, as you know only too well in South Australia, is to make sure that when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow we've got the back up there. We can keep the supply going. That hasn't been thought of enough in the past. We are extremely focused on it. That's why we're doing Snowy 2 and Battery of the Nation Tasmania, why we're looking at interconnects. We need more gas in the system. All those things are going to happen to make sure we've got the back up there; that's crucially important.

LEON BYNER: Angus Taylor thank you for joining us today. Energy Minister.