CHRIS KENNY:  We cross down now to Goulburn in New South Wales to catch up with the Federal Energy Minister, Angus Taylor. Thanks for joining us, Angus. The first thing I wanted to ask you about is the global economic slowdown because of the Coronavirus is of course reducing economic activity and therefore suppressing greenhouse gas emissions, which the climate alarmists would see as a good thing. But there are already some activists saying that the reductions because of this slowdown shouldn't count towards countries' Paris targets. I mean, do they want their cake and eat it too?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yeah, well, look, Chris, I think the important point to make here is this is not how we want to reduce emissions.

CHRIS KENNY: Exactly.

ANGUS TAYLOR: There's two ways to reduce emissions, one is slash your economic activity, and the other is just make that economic activity more emissions or energy efficient. It's the second which has to be the focus, not the first. This is a point we've been making for many years, of course. It's not a new point. In the lead-up to the last election, I made it on your program many times, is that we want a strong economy whilst we're reducing emissions, and that means using technology in a sensible way, not slashing activity. Slashing activity is not good, and we're seeing that now. It's obviously something we'd all prefer didn't happen.

CHRIS KENNY: Yeah, exactly. Go to your local holiday resort or airport or freeway now and you can see what a low carbon world looks like, a carbon-constrained world looks like. But one of the ways you're looking to have a low emissions but high energy future is through hydrogen. And Australia has a lot of opportunities in hydrogen development. Tell us in simple terms, I'm going to pretend I don't quite understand it, tell me how it works.

[Laughs]

ANGUS TAYLOR: Let me make the first point and important point which is we already use hydrogen now - it's not new. When you buy fertiliser, farmers buy fertiliser, it's typically made from hydrogen which has come from natural gas. And so, it's not a new industry in that sense, but it has enormous amount of potential for generation of electricity and for industrial processes like fertiliser production. It can be made from gas, it can be made from coal, and it can be made from renewables. You can make it from many different sources, but it's a very usable gas for electricity production, for industrial processes. It can be transported through pipes, it can be transported on ships. And we think it's an enormous opportunity for Australia, because we have so many different sources of energy, we can use those different sources to create, to produce hydrogen for our own use, and potentially for exports just as we'd become the world's biggest LNG exporter, gas exporter.

CHRIS KENNY: So, the key is, though, to do this in the most cost-effective way-

ANGUS TAYLOR: Exactly.

CHRIS KENNY: And so is the future here investment in research and development?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Exactly right. I mean, this is how you reduce emissions. You don't slash the economy, you use technology. So, R&D is absolutely critical to this. Getting these technologies to a point where they're competitive with their higher emitting alternatives and then people will use them. They'll choose. We don't want to coerce people to use these technologies, we want people to choose because it's economically sensible for them to do that. So, this is a good opportunity for us. We have a background in it. We produce hydrogen now, we're a big fertiliser producer right now because agriculture is such an important part of our economy. So, it's a very good opportunity for us. Many jobs, exports, and of course it's strengthening our position as an energy country. We have to strengthen that position in other ways - I'm sure we'll talk about a couple of those in a moment - but this is an important part of the portfolio. You need to be a great energy provider in the coming decades.

CHRIS KENNY: Yeah, look, we all know about the benefits we've seen over globalism - from globalism. I don't think people recognise them enough. You know, we have cheaper cars, cheaper access to a lot of products. But this pandemic has exposed some of our vulnerability when it comes to globalism.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Sure.

CHRIS KENNY: One of those surely must be in energy these days, in fuel security in particular. Is Australia exposed badly when it comes to fuel security? Do we need to do something to have more refining capacity on our shores?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, let me just reassure your viewers today, Chris, that there is no shortage of fuel. There is no need to run out to the petrol station and fill up-

CHRIS KENNY: [Interrupts] No, I'm not suggesting that. But it's raised this in the debate. In fact, it's cheaper now than ever.

ANGUS TAYLOR: No, you're absolutely right. You're exactly right. So, in the short-term, we're flooding in liquid fuels - in petrol and diesel, and jet fuel, obviously - there's a huge surplus around the world that has dropped the energy price to very low levels. It's also creating some issues we're going to have to watch closely with our refineries. But your broader point about Australia having fuel security is a really important one. Traditionally, we've produced a lot of our own fuel out of Bass Strait. We've seen Bass Strait falling away in recent years. We haven't replaced that fast enough. We're looking to replace that source of crude oil in places like the Beetaloo Basin in the Northern Territory. But we've also got to make sure that our refineries are healthy. The refining industry has been changing dramatically globally and this crisis has really intensified that. It's a tough time for the world's refineries. We had a G20 Energy Ministers' meeting just on Friday night, on Good Friday, to the wee hours of Saturday morning, and it was very much focussed on how do we make sure we have global fuel security and also the local fuel security we need. I was over in the US before this all broke out looking at our options to work with the Americans on this. But we do need to have enough local fuel supply and it's something we're very focussed on as a government. That is crucial to having real national sovereignty, control over our own destiny. And I think you're right, the crisis has really highlighted the importance for us controlling those really critical supply chains, of which fuel is one, medical supplies is obviously another.

CHRIS KENNY:  Angus, thanks so much for joining us.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks for having me, Chris.

ENDS