DEBORAH KNIGHT: Every Friday we'll chat about the big issues of the week with Energy Minister Angus Taylor and the Shadow Minister for Agriculture and Resources, Joel Fitzgibbon. Normally we'd have them here in the studio but because of social distancing, they're on the phone for us now. Fellas, hello and welcome. 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks for having me Deb.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Great to be with you Deb. G'day Angus.

ANGUS TAYLOR: G'day Joel.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Good on you guys. Now look, all right, we want more than ever cooperation. So I'm just going to say from the outset, forget the political point scoring you two, we want to see a bit of bipartisanship if we can. But the big issue of course coronavirus. It's been such an incredible week, one that I don't think I've experienced before. The contrast to where we were this time last week to where we are today is really stark. I'll go to you first, Angus. How are you going yourself personally with you and your family?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Look, it's tough for everyone. It's not about me obviously, it's about all Australians. This is obviously a tough time, whether you're cooped up with family, you're trying to look after your parents or grandparents or you've got a business you're trying to keep going through tough times, own a cafe or a restaurant, and of course, they're really at the front line of this. So it's not an easy time. We're incredibly conscious of this. You know as Energy Minister, I'm seeing the importance that we see in the energy sector, making sure they supply their electricity-

DEBORAH KNIGHT: I want to talk to you about that. I'll talk to you about that in a sec because that's crucial. Absolutely. And Joel, for you, social distancing. What are you doing? Doing the foot shake are you?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: And can I first of all say Deb, Angus and I've been sparring partners in the past on various radio programs.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Well keep it together you two.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: It has always been pretty civil and I can guarantee bipartisanship on this issue. Yeah look my life hasn't changed a hell of a lot. Our kids have grown up and moved away. Obviously, my diary is a little more empty than what it usually is. Most of my electorate staff and Canberra staff are working from home. My wife has a small business. She has a beauty therapy salon and she's facing some real challenges. Obviously, there's no social distancing when you're doing facials and the like, and she's on tenterhooks. She doesn't know what is next for her. Of course, customers are already falling off understandably. And of course, if they have someone in the salon who has diagnosed positive, then I'm sure it will be a real problem for her. So, she's seen what it's like close up in terms of the business community.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Yeah. So many businesses in so many sectors are being affected by this. Angus, in terms of the energy sector, I know that the energy ministers are meeting today to try to come up with a way to protect our energy supplies. What's on the table? What are we likely to see?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well we are seeing real bipartisanship already. We spoke last night and will be speaking again this afternoon, and we'll be putting in place a nationally coordinated approach to energy, and in particular, keeping the lights on, making sure there's enough gas and enough liquid fuels, diesel, petrol to ensure that businesses and of course households have what they need. There's an enormous amount of work that's already been going on and will continue to go on around making sure we've got a safe healthy workforce, making sure we've got fuel coming through the supply chain so we know exactly how much is there. 

DEBORAH KNIGHT: And what about the energy companies though, to ensure that if people lose their job and they can't make their payments, how are you going to protect them?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Exactly. So hardship policies are really crucial at this time. We've asked the energy companies, I've spoken to all the major companies and asked them to extend their hardship policies to impacted coronavirus people and businesses. That's not just someone who gets the virus but someone whose business has lost a huge amount of revenue - the sort of example that Joel just talked to you about. We're seeing lots of that now, particularly in the hospitality, frontline businesses, service businesses. And it's really important that the companies have hardship policies in place that look after those people. It's also important, by the way, that people who can pay their bills do, so we can we can look after that way more easily those customers who really are in trouble.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Which is terrific to see. And we know, Joel, that there is that sense of working together, which is great from Labor with the Government on the issue of coronavirus. We saw Anthony Albanese, he’s doing a press conference right now, and he's saying that he'll support the Government's tough measures to tackle coronavirus. They'll pass the first stimulus package, but he's saying he'll wait and see on the details of the second one. But in terms of the official medical advice, I wanted to ask you about this Joel, because Bill Shorten came out on the Today Show saying he's keeping his kids at home. The Prime Minister was really strong saying we shouldn't be doing that, we should be following the official medical advice. Surely if MPs aren't setting an example here, you can't expect the general population to do it?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Deb, like Angus I'm sure, I have being using every medium available to me as an MP to get the message out to people appealing for calm, but appealing to them also to follow the medical advice, and of course, to respect the new arrangements on social distancing and the rules that go with that. Look I respect Bill Shorten's decision to take his children out of school. I think every parent is entitled to do so, if that is their will. I've been in the National Security Committee of the Cabinet and I know that people who sit there receive a lot of information you and I, and even possibly Angus, don't necessarily receive. So, I think we have to have some confidence in the people who are in that room and receiving the advice. And we all know the downside of closing down schools. It means parents, working parents, or ambulance, paramedics, our nurses, our firies, et cetera, lose what is effectively a child minding arrangement in the school and of course, some kids will also end up with grandparents or even great grandparents. So there are arguments on both sides of this debate and I think we just have to have confidence that those in that room are making the right decision. I suspect this is inevitable. But look, if Scott Morrison and his team believe that it's not time yet to close down our schools, I think we've got to have confidence that they're making the right decision and an informed decision.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: And Angus, do you think that it's fair enough that in Queensland, for example, the schools are saying that if parents choose to keep their kids away, if they're not sick or if there's not a threat to their own health, the kids don't have asthma or respiratory issues and they take them out of school just because they are concerned, they could face punishment for truancy?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, look, the advice we have, Deb, is very clear, which is that the risk to kids is very low. And of course, as Joel rightly pointed out, there are very significant workforce issues with forcing kids out of school. We think it's appropriate to keep them in school. I've kept my kids in school. The Prime Minister's kept his kids in school.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Has Bill Shorten made a mistake taking his out then?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, we just think the right thing to do is to keep the schools open at this point and to keep the kids in school, and that's the advice we have. We know from the data we're seeing all around the world that kids of that age, school age, the risks are much, much lower. They're much more resilient. Obviously, if there's a child with a serious health issue, there might be special circumstances. But keeping the schools open, we think, is enormously important. The workforce issues here that Joel mentioned are very significant. We have to keep our workforce, particularly health workers, essential services, energy workers. We need to look after them, look after their families, and make sure their kids have a place to go and that they're not being forced to stay at home to look after the kids.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Now, Rick has called in. I won't put him through. I'll give the question he's asking though to you guys directly. He says he runs a small business. He's going to have to take a 60 per cent pay cut. He's asking if you politicians would be willing to take a pay cut as well. Joel?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Look, I am open to any proposition to be frank, Deb. I think that's a reasonable argument for people to be putting, but I think it's a side issue at this point. I think we need to get that stimulus package out into the business community and the community more generally, and the risk of just departing from the bipartisan just a little. None of the first stimulus package is yet into the business community or the broader community and of course, we haven't even seen the second stimulus package. So, the Government is doing some good things but I think we need to up the pace.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Angus, what's your response to that?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, Joel, responding to that - look, apart from that last point, I do agree with Joel - but the point here is we do need to have appropriate stimulus. Of course, it's been escalating over time, another $105 billion dollars of stimulus from the Reserve Bank and the Government just announced. That will focus on making sure we've got credit available for small business, in particular, and households. That's enormously important. We know if people are having debts called in, it would be very, very dangerous at this time. So making sure we can help them with that, and of course, as much as possible, making sure that small businesses are in a position to continue going over the next few months and then, are there to ramp up on the other side of this. That is enormously important. I agree with Joel and I am sure, absolutely agree on that and that is a priority for the Government.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: And just quickly, a story, if we can. I want to end on a positive note. We know that there's been lots of bad stuff happening but any good stuff that you fellas have seen out in the communities? Some good news stories? Joel?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well, rather than go to a local story I just want to say something about the death of Catherine Hamlin on Wednesday because that is something to celebrate, as sad as her passing is. I had the opportunity to visit her in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia on two occasions. Her work there as a volunteer has been phenomenal over many, many decades. 55,000 young women in Ethiopia benefited from her work and before her, the work of her husband, and many, many more indirectly as a result of the establishment of the midwifery schools. 

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Yes. She changed lives for the better.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: In Dr Catherine Hamlin, we saw absolutely the better side of our humanity. We've seen a bit of both sides over the course of the last couple of months. But in her, we saw only good. She really was the modern Mother Teresa.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Absolutely. Angus, how about you? Just quickly.

ANGUS TAYLOR: A good friend of ours lives in an area with lots of older people around him. He put notes under their doors, offering help and support this week, and he got a nice response, but the most overwhelming response was from other people wanting to help him to look after those older people, to bring them meals, to do anything they could to help. An absolutely overwhelming response. The result of this is you've got neighbours helping neighbours. We're going to see lots of that over the next little while. Australians at their best are absolutely wonderful people, and I think we will find a way of working our way through this, tough as it may be. And I'm looking forward to having some real bipartisanship on that with Joel. 

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Bring it on. That's what we want more. Alright. Fellas, 
thanks for joining us. We look forward to talking you again next week. 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks Deb.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Our great pleasure, Deb.

ENDS