NICOLE CHVASTEK: Angus Taylor is the federal Energy Minister. Angus Taylor, good afternoon.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Good afternoon, Nicole.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: This is happening to people all around the country, isn't it?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yeah, look - I just heard the back end of that call with Andrew. We've made a rule change in the last two weeks whereby if Andrew rings up his energy company and either has a photo of the meter reading or tells them what the meter reading is on the call, then they are obliged to charge him only what he's used, not what they estimated. Now, that's a rule change that we've made to stop exactly this practice. And, you know, unfortunately some of these dodgy practices have been too abundant and, you know, it's time for the energy companies to start thinking of their customers. And the example you just had was absolutely the sort of practice that must stop if we're going to get a fair deal from our energy companies.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: I mean, I understand - you know, take a photo of your bill and send it in to the energy company and say: you must pay. You know what, sometimes 75 year olds on a farm out the back of nowhere are the ones who are getting gouged because they don't have the capacity to have a smartphone, take photos and fight these fights.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Exactly. You're spot on, Nicole. And that's why if he just rings up and reads from the meter, that is enough. Obviously a photo's better, but if you can't do that, that's fine - just read from the meter. And look, let me tell you: if Andrew wants to ring my office and follow up, we will make sure, we will do everything to make sure that AGL is doing the right thing by him, because that's exactly the kind of practice that's just got to stop.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: Andrew, if you'd like to give us a call back and provide us with your number, the Minister will assist you in dealing with that terrible price gouging that you are being confronted with. The other thing of course is, Minister, the inhumanity of it - the poor bugger, his father's just died. The reason that the bills used to be so high was because his father was on expensive breathing equipment and now his father's died five months ago, clearly the breathing equipment is no longer being used and the energy company's still - knowing that the father has died; they've got the death certificate - still sending him the estimated bill.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Look - I hear you. And this is why we've made this rule change. But as I say, very happy to help Andrew with it. But look, the bigger thing here that we are saying, Nicole, is it is time for the energy companies to change their culture and start focusing on their customers and doing the right thing. We're not talking about technology companies here - they're providing a basic service to every Australian. As you said, you know, pensioners, small businesses, hard working families who haven't got time to question their bill every time they receive one. There's an element of trust we all have in those energy companies and unfortunately there have been instances - a lot of instances that I see - in recent times where they've taken advantage of that and this is exactly the sort of practice that has just got to stop.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: Today is ultimatum day - what does that mean?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well look, we've- I've spoken with 20 of the energy companies' chief executives today and I've said it is time for these practices to change. We're putting through rule changes but the culture has got to change and the prices have got to be better. We've said to them that we want what we call a loyalty tax gone by 1 July - so, this is the extra price or the premium you pay, which has been particularly steep in Victoria, if you don't negotiate your contract each year. And we find about 20 per cent of small businesses are in that position and many households as well - they just don't get time to ring up and negotiate a bill every year. You don't even always think of it. [Inaudible]

NICOLE CHVASTEK: You don't know that you have to.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, they now have to send a letter to you letting you know that it is going to roll over, so that's a change we've made in recent times. But we want to make sure that those who aren't in a position to be ringing every year are still getting a fair price, and so we said that loyalty tax, that trust tax - when people put too much trust in these energy companies, given the way they've behaved - that's got to go by 1 July. We want voluntary reductions on 1 January. The companies have stepped up in a way that I haven't seen in recent times: today they've said that they will actually streamline the way they make offers of contracts to their customers, and that means that there'll be a single point of comparison. So, right now, you could get a 25 per cent discount from one company and a 25 per cent discount from the other and the prices are completely different - you'd need a spread sheet to sit there and work out which one's a better deal. This will be a change that they are initiating now as quickly as possible so that when a company says 25 per cent and another company says 25 per cent, they're against the same benchmark and so people can make that simple comparison. That hasn't been possible - you need a PhD in Economics to be able to work out which deal is better right now. So, they have come forward on this - that's a good act; they know we're serious about legislating on a whole series of fronts if they don't act, but at least we are now starting to see some of these changes that are so desperately needed.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: Minister, these are band aids, aren't they? These are things that the power companies are going to do while you're beating at the door and as soon as you're looking the other way, we're back to Plan A which is gouging those who don't know how to navigate the system.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, we won't be looking the other way. I mean, we're implementing what the ACCC recommended we do, which is to have them monitoring closely on an ongoing basis what the pricing practices are. And a lot of these- and issues that I've just been talking about are being driven by what the ACCC's told us. Well, we've said to them we want them to keep watching. We have to, because it hasn't been what it should have been. What we really need is that underlying change of culture in the companies where they recognise that they're serving customers, they're there to serve their customers. I think that will come, but it will need government to be vigilant for a period of time before it does, Nicole, which is why we won't be looking the other way.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: I'm speaking to Angus Taylor, the federal Energy Minister. Angus Taylor, Fairfax reports today that a potential Morrison Government move to shield new coal fired power projects from the future costs of their carbon emissions amounts to a taxpayer funded subsidy for new coal fired power projects and would be, quote, an extraordinary and, quote, irresponsible move, the former chief of the government's green bank says. Are you planning to provide cheap finance for new coal fired power stations and then to provide them with taxpayer funded subsidies so that they can be shielded from the costs of their own carbon emissions?

ANGUS TAYLOR: No, let me tell you what we're planning to do: we're planning to make sure there's enough reliable, affordable supply in the system, in each state, in each market, so that we've got affordable, reliable power prices. Prices that customers can actually pay - they're not getting gouged. Now, in some markets - take South Australia, for instance - we haven't had that. We simply haven't had it. We have now in South Australia amongst the highest electricity prices in the world; certainly the highest in Australia. We haven't had the right supply - it's got to be 24/7 supply. We're not going to pick a fuel source - we're not interested in having favourites here. What we're interested in is the outcome of affordable, reliable power.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: Maybe you should pick a fuel source so that we have a more stable system that investors want to put their money into.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Except that there's many different fuel sources and combinations and balances of fuel sources that deliver us what we want, which is reliable, affordable power. So, you know, that's for the companies and investors to decide. What we will back-

NICOLE CHVASTEK: But it's for you to provide a stable climate policy so that investors know what they're putting their money into and have confidence in the system.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, let me just- I'll come to that, but let me just finish off on that last point. It is for us to make sure there's enough investment happening in reliable, affordable power and we're determined to do that - independent of fuel source; there's got to be a balance here. In terms of emissions - look, we are going to see a 250 per cent increase in the solar and wind in the national electricity market - that's the east coast market of Australia - in the next three years. Two hundred and fifty per cent increase in solar and wind. It's committed - $15 billion of investment. It'll take our solar and wind from 9 per cent up to about 23 per cent in the next three years. Now, the result of that will be we'll reach our 2030 emissions targets many years ahead of time.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: Well, that's disputed.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well- [laughs] you know, these are the numbers. I mean, they are out there; they're in the public domain.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: Why should taxpayers have to subsidise new coal fired power stations that can't control their carbon emissions?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, we're talking about carbon emissions. I'm telling you that we will reach our carbon emission targets years ahead of time and the reason is we have a huge amount of investment in solar and wind - both large scale solar and household solar - coming into the system [inaudible].

NICOLE CHVASTEK: But my question is: why do taxpayers have to subsidise new coal fired power stations that can't control their carbon emissions?

ANGUS TAYLOR: No. Let me be clear about what we've said we will do and we won't do. What we've said is we will underwrite the reliable, affordable power that will keep bills down and that will remain within those emission constraints. Now, we're confident we'll reach those very, very easily - way ahead of time. The challenge here - that you've just heard from your listeners - is that we have a system right now which is not delivering the affordable, reliable power we need.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: So, you'll be underwriting new coal fired power stations?

ANGUS TAYLOR: We will be underwriting - where we have to, in markets where there's a problem - affordable, reliable power. We won't pick fuel sources.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: And the taxpayer will subsidise those coal fired power stations?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, you're using those words, not me. I'm telling you what we're doing. You can interpret that however you like. But we want to make sure we've got affordable, reliable power in the system.  And frankly, if you look at South Australia, we're left in a situation where we simply don't have that because there was not enough forward planning; there was no plan for affordable, reliable power ahead of time. Now, we're not going to allow that experiment that was run in South Australia to run out across the rest of Australia. We're simply not going to do it, including Victoria. And Victoria is the closest - Victoria is where this will happen next if we don't make these moves. So, underwriting the power that's going to deliver us the affordable outcome, the 24/7 requirements of customers - we're determined to do that. We are completely neutral - we're not going to pick fuel sources, we're going to pick outcomes. And that's what we should do. We're very confident that within that we will reach our emissions targets, not just by 2030, which is when the target is set for, but well ahead of that.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: Minister, thank you for your time.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks, Nicole.

NICOLE CHVASTEK: Angus Taylor, federal Energy Minister.