LEON BYNER: We're being told that we could save up to $1000 a year on energy bills. This is a proposal by the current Federal Government to crack down on sneaky late fees associated with conditional discount plans. Now, the proposal, which is supposed to benefit people in just about every state and territory, what will happen is, will limit conditional discounts for both gas and electricity retail offers, and the associated fees to reasonable costs. Now, of course, the interpretation of these things can be as wide as a couple of front loaders going in and out, but we keep getting told that prices are going to come down. The problem we have is that when we talk to anybody that's got a business, that's got a contract with a power company or, indeed, consumers, they keep telling us the prices are going north. Let's talk to the Federal Energy Minister Angus Taylor. Angus, thanks for joining us today.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks for having me, Leon.

LEON BYNER: Tell us why you're confident that this could save people up to a grand a year.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Leon, because we know about a quarter of customers make late payments - sometimes regularly, sometimes less regularly - and they get hit with an extra charge when they make a late payment. Now those extra charges are completely disproportionate to the costs. So they can be 25, 30, even up to 50 per cent increase in what they're paying , because they might even pay only an hour late. Well that's just totally unacceptable. It's totally unacceptable. It is the kind of culture we've had in the energy sector that's got to change. We'll bring this rule through as quickly as possible, but actually what also has to happen is the companies should just step up and sort this out because they're ripping off their customers with their sneaky late payments. We know about a quarter of customers and 59 per cent of vulnerable customers - that's a shocking statistic - pay late either regularly or from time to time, and they shouldn't be incurring those kinds of completely unacceptable, unreasonable costs.

LEON BYNER: Alright, stay on the line for a sec. We got a comment from energy expert Bruce Mountain on this, and this is what he said:

BRUCE MOUNTAIN - EXTRACT: I think it is grossly overstated. I think there may be a few customers that will save from this, but I don't think it will be general. I think it's certainly the government looking to announce big things but I don't think it's generally a saving.

LEON BYNER: What do you say?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well that's just wrong. We know 24 per cent of people pay late one time or another. I bet a lot of your listeners out there have made late payments and many of them would have been hit with an increased charge - 59 per cent of vulnerable customers.

LEON BYNER: Are you going to outlaw these?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, that's exactly what this does.

LEON BYNER: Well, reasonable costs, you could interpret that a lot of ways, couldn't you?

ANGUS TAYLOR: It's pretty tightly defined, Leon.

LEON BYNER: Is it?

ANGUS TAYLOR: We've made a point of tightly defining it, and let me tell you, the ACCC and the other regulators are crawling all over these companies now, and that means that the culture of the companies have got to change. We're holding them to account.

LEON BYNER: Minister, isn't the problem that between three companies - Origin, AGL and Energy Australia - vested in those three certainly in this state, is over 70 per cent of the market. Isn't that the real problem here?

ANGUS TAYLOR: It is a problem. You are dead right.

LEON BYNER: What are you going to do?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well that's why we're bringing forward the big stick legislation to say: "You've got to do the right thing and you've got to stop shutting out competitors". In the South Australian market in particular, not only do you have three players with that market share, they're integrated, they're fully integrated, and they're shutting out competitors, which is why we're bringing forward tough legislation-

LEON BYNER: What? In this sitting?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Absolutely - it's in the house, it's on the notice paper - it's tough legislation which will hold them to account. Now, here's the problem, Leon. The problem is that 12 times Labor have said they won't support that legislation, and the truth is Labor is too close to the energy companies. They won't hold them to account, they won't deal with what - as you absolutely correctly point out - is a very serious issue where a small number of companies have ended up with high market share. You know, in other sectors that can work but they have to act responsibly. They've got to realise that they've got to be stewards for their customers and that's not happening in this industry as it should be.

LEON BYNER: Stay on the line, I've got the executive director of SACOSS Ross Womersley. Ross, good morning, what do you say on this?

ROSS WOMERSLEY - SOUTH AUSTRALIAN COUNCIL OF SOCIAL SERVICE: Leon, we think that the most important thing that we could be doing around people, particularly those people that are most at risk of facing late payment fees, and that group of people are people likely to be on low income across our community, we actually think one of the most helpful things that either side of politics to be talking about is some major investments that enable those people to get access to some of the preventative stuff, some of the things that would enable people to put solar, get access to solar benefit, or the benefits that flow from having solar installed on your property. At the moment, that seems to us to be one of the most substantial ways that we could help people to actually make savings, and particularly, in a context where that group of people will always struggle to meet their costs that are associated with accessing essential services like electricity.

LEON BYNER: Angus Taylor, what do you say?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, it's just a different issue. I mean, I accept that that's a way they can find a saving. In fact, we've seen record installations of household solar happening right now, but this is a different issue. This is about companies slogging people with a premium of 25, 30, 40, even 50 per cent because they paid a day or even an hour late.

LEON BYNER: This has been going on for years, why now? I mean this has been many years in the making.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well it has.

LEON BYNER: So why? Why all of a sudden now is it unacceptable?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Because it's got worse. So, since 2014, we've seen a more than doubling in a number of states of the amount that's been whacked on people's bills when they pay late. So it's got a lot worse. So 2014 it was significantly lower than now. We're now seeing that number go up and up and up and up. That's completely unacceptable. As you just heard, the vulnerable customers are being hit the hardest. There's no question that's right. Fifty-nine per cent.

LEON BYNER: So let's be clear: what are you promising South Australian power consumers?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, a fair deal when they make a late payment. That's what we're promising, and a fair deal is it should only reflect costs, and that's a tiny fraction of what they're being hit with now in most cases.

LEON BYNER: Ross Womersley and Angus Taylor, thank you.