GREG JENNETT: All right, well, Madeleine King is the Resources Minister. You might have caught a glimpse of her sitting behind the Treasurer's shoulder as the Future Made in Australia Bill was presented. Madeleine joins us live now in the studio. Welcome back to the program, Madeline. So, this bill for tax credits, critical minerals and hydrogen was, as I said earlier in the budget. Why have we waited so long to see it in the Parliament?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Thanks, Greg. And it's great to be back here in the ABC studios. We haven't been - the Parliament may have been waiting, but we've been working. The truth is we announced this in the budget period and then set about the long and involved tasks of consulting further with industry on the design of the production tax incentives. So, that's why it's taken this amount of time and I think that's a good thing. You need to work with industry, hear their point of view on how it should be designed so that it lasts and it's a good policy. And as the Association of Mining and Exploration Companies has said, it is well designed off the back of that consultation.

GREG JENNETT: It is a good thing to have consultation. Not so good if you don't have sufficient time to pass it through the current Parliament. Is it your expectation - you control the numbers in the House, obviously, but beyond there, that this will be accelerated?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, we always knew the timeframe for the start date, which is 2027, and that's been built into the design for many reasons. Again, that's in consultation with industry, that timeline, so if it doesn't pass now, it will pass in the future. Obviously we hope to pass it, but the truth is we've seen the Coalition come out against this, you know, at the moment after it was announced, not reading it, not considering it, not talking to anyone. And the Member for Hume instead chose to just say no, which is a poor habit. I hope they change their mind.

GREG JENNETT: You're right. That was a budget night rapid reaction from them. Why don't we break it down into a couple of elements and start talking about green hydrogen? First of all, Madeleine, I'm interested in the expected uptake because, yes, the rules say that a final investment decision needs to be made five and a half years after these laws are passed. Well, 2030, anyway. There must already be serious investors waiting around, preparing to make those decisions. How many?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yeah, well, there are investors on both sides of that equation of the production tax incentive, whether it be hydrogen or critical minerals. Now, you would know, Greg, that hydrogen is not directly in my portfolio, so I don't know the amount of investors in hydrogen. We know, there's certainly a lot of interest, a lot of companies are investing. It is, it is a tougher thing to achieve, a green hydrogen than it is to achieve the critical minerals processing. But both are difficult, but both are also 100 per cent essential for our drive to net zero. And I for one want to back both of those technologies and those industries in this country because we need them to get to net zero.

GREG JENNETT: Okay, so accepting that you have a higher level of visibility over the critical minerals investors, is there preparation ready to go for the passage of this by them and then their final investment decision?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: 100 per cent. So, critical minerals processing companies and mine-to-processing companies are already factoring this in. I mean, they called for it. This is an industry list policy. We heard the calls a year ago. We've done the work with industry to development - to develop it at the announcement, but then the further design work. So, we have investment going in right across the country from Kalgoorlie in the west, Alice Springs at the heart of the country, to Dubbo in the east. So, there's a lot of interest, but it does - this production tax incentive does spur that investment. It gives them greater reason to invest and keep on going.

GREG JENNETT: Have you estimates on what percentage? I think the Treasurer said in his tabling speech today that by some global estimates demand for critical minerals will increase by up to 350 per cent. In that growth range, how much of that does Australia claim?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Oh well, we have the greatest deposits of critical minerals and rare earth. So, I mean, I couldn't give you an exact figure of the 350 per cent, but I think they're based on International Energy Agency estimates. We know that there will be a great demand, but in amongst the great demand is also the very real challenge of international markets, which are making it very difficult. And that's why the incentive is so important to try and level the playing field. And I use the words of the CEO of the Chamber of Minerals and Energy in WA, Rebecca Tomkinson, who said, this is what this is about, is giving Australian minerals producers and processes a level playing field against the international competition.

GREG JENNETT: Why don't we look further downstream towards the end users who manufacture things out of this. You might be aware of a recent bankruptcy filed by what was a very large scale Swedish battery maker, Northvolt. I think it was backed by Goldman Sachs and had a high share ownership from the Volkswagen Group as well. It had been hailed as a key moment when it first attracted investors to push to counter Asian dominance of the battery-making industry. Does it cause you to pause and rethink Australia's strategy for onshore battery-making when you see a major player like that in this difficulty?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Sure. Well, I'm not sure of the details of that story, though I'm aware of it. There are a lot of different batteries, is what I know. And right now we're already producing vanadium flow batteries. I went to the opening of a factory in Malaga in the north of the metropolitan area of Western Australia of Perth. So, we are building it, but we're coming from a different space than perhaps others like the company you mentioned and others say in the US who are --

GREG JENNETT: So more niche, is it? For Australian--

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: -- because the lithium-ion is a really important part of the battery manufacturing world for to go into EVs and so forth. We're probably going to be developing more of the grid style batteries. The bigger size to - that reflects what our mineral wealth is. Vanadium is an extraordinary mineral. We've got deposits in WA but also Queensland at the end of the CopperString development. So, I see - and the battery strategy is there. We can go all the way up the value chain; for some batteries, we might go partially up the value chain, but the main thing is we're doing more of that value add here in Australia, and we build that capacity over time. We don't have to rush in and build it tomorrow. We have to do it properly.

GREG JENNETT: It's not impervious to Japanese subsidised product crashing the price, though, is it?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Oh well, nothing's impervious to any kind of market oversupply. But I would add we work very well with the Japanese government. Indeed, it is the Japanese government and their credit agencies that has ensured that Lynas' Rare Earths in Kalgoorlie - and I was at the opening of their refinery just a couple of weeks ago - because they have invested in our processing capacity, that Lynas' is now the biggest, rarest producer outside of China.

GREG JENNETT: All right. Now a lot of you know the Future Made in Australia decisions that will be made here come at a time of the emerging second Trump presidency. And you've had a lot of dealings with the Biden administration on critical minerals. Will you use that as leverage, the government that is not necessarily Madeleine King, as a bargaining chip for other Australian manufacturers to avoid whatever tariff walls might be in contemplation by the President.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: And that is a matter of course for the President and his administration. But what I would say on critical minerals is the work we've been done has been extensive and there are two things to remember. That the geology in Australia; its economics are irrefutable. It can't move anywhere it belongs here in Australia. It's up to us how we work with our partners to make sure we have that secure supply chain. The other thing to remember is that the work between Australia and the US on critical minerals began under the former Trump administration. Ambassador Kennedy pointed this out at the press club recently. So, it started with President Trump. It continued and got stronger under President Biden. And I fully expect that to continue under the new Trump administration. And if we can speak to the new U.S. administration about how that affects other parts of our economy, well, you know, we'll do that as it comes.

GREG JENNETT: Sounds like an emerging pitch of mutual benefit there --

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: It always is with our friends in America.

GREG JENNETT: I'll listen now for further developments on it. Thanks so much for finding time on a busy sitting day.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Thanks Greg.