BILL MCDONALD: The first business to receive taxpayer investment under an Albanese Government election pledge to keep manufacturing in Australia. It was announced just yesterday. And a Queensland firm was the recipient of that – Russell Mineral Equipment, RME. It’s a regional Queensland-based mining equipment firm, and it’s been given $40 million from the fund. That investment, the government says, will ensure the firm stays in Australian hands. Very important. Minister for Industry and Science Ed Husic joins us now. Good morning, Minister. 

ED HUSIC, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SCIENCE: Bill, how are you? 

BILL MCDONALD: I’m well, thanks. This is great news about this announcement. Criticism is that, I guess, it’s come around two years after promised. Was it more of a reannouncement, and why the delay, I guess? 

ED HUSIC: Well, this is the first announcement by the $15 billion National Reconstruction Fund. It’s important in particular, and what I’m real pleased with, is that the NRF made this call to back a regional Queensland manufacturer. These – getting these type of deals, the type of money that’s involved, does take time to negotiate. You need to be able to make sure that the investment fits the needs of the company to deliver the rate of return because, bear in mind, you know, there is an expectation that taxpayers will also make some money or, if it’s a loan, get it repaid with a bit on top. And ultimately we need to have the confidence that the deal will work. It’s not like pumping out a grant. So they take time, but they’re an important investment in manufacturing, and for regional Queensland that, you know, when you look at Queensland, the proportion of manufacturers outside of capital cities and in our regions, Queensland is head and shoulders above every other state and territory in the country. So regional manufacturing is a big deal. Backing it in is hugely important, and keeping this firm in Australian hands, vital. 

BILL MCDONALD: This fund was framed, I guess, as a post-pandemic measure to shore up our supply chain as well and reduce vulnerability to global pressures. Does it tick that box? How does it achieve these goals? 

ED HUSIC: Well, I mean, I don’t need to tell your listeners this – everyone knows mining is really important to the country. Resources, very, very critical to our economy. What RME does is help the mining sector, in particular, with its equipment, its maintenance of its equipment. The work that has been done by Dr John Russell has saved money and saved lives, frankly, in the way that you can help to meet mill relining. And what I’m – you know, I just think is incredible is that RME exports 90 per cent of what it makes. So it’s doing great stuff for our local industry. It’s doing great earning – like, I think it’s earned about a billion in export revenue. So it is important that we build up that manufacturing or maintain that manufacturing capability. And why would we see them go offshore only to import their stuff back? Like, it just makes no sense. So they can make a contribution to us and they can also help us with our export dollars. It makes perfect sense. 

BILL MCDONALD: Is this the first of what would be a number of funding announcements from the NRF in the months before the federal election? I guess there’s also – there seems to be a bit of doubt thrown over the Quantum PSI, that deal as well, with the new change of government in Queensland questioning that investment. 

ED HUSIC: Let me come back – I mean, you’re asking me two things. 

BILL MCDONALD: Yeah. 

ED HUSIC: Let me quickly deal with them both, Bill. On the first thing, the really key thing to emphasise, the National Reconstruction Fund Board makes their decisions independent of government. They go through and make sure everything stacks up for both the company and for the taxpayer and obviously the ambitions of what the government has around manufacturing. So it’s not me going in working out the deals or any other politician. And I think we’re over the days of politicians making calls on the basis of the best grab of votes, all right? This is an important task for the country’s longer term good. So they do that. There will be a series of announcements over the coming weeks as the NRF releases and finalises it’s deals, so that will become apparent. And it will be up to them to stage when they want to make those announcements. That is in their hands, right? 

BILL MCDONALD: Mmm. 

ED HUSIC: On the second point that you raise about PsiQuantum, like, clearly, every – I respect the fact that new governments are entitled to come in and look at the decisions that are made and whether or not they’ll continue them or not. We did that ourselves. In actual fact, as Industry Minister, I looked at the deals that had been done in the industry space. A lot of them I kept, because my view was a lot of those firms had put a lot of time in to the, you know, in many instances grant applications that had been made and announced by the Liberals before me. My view is to keep momentum going. Important to rebuild capability. If the deal has been done properly, let it go ahead. It’s up to the Queensland government to do its assessment. But my big thing is particularly my criticism of the federal Liberal and National parties is I just want to know why they don’t think Queensland deserves a world-leading project that will create really strong jobs, super charge the Queensland economy and also continue to make it attractive for investment both from here and overseas. I think the development that PsiQuantum wants to proceed with, Australians wanting to bring this and position Queensland as a frontrunner, I think speaks volumes about Queensland’s strengths, and I’m – I stand at the ready to work with the Queensland government in answering or dealing with any issues that they may or may not have. 

BILL MCDONALD: Will you stand by it and continue to back it if they for some reason may decide to pull out of their support of it?

ED HUSIC: Well, I don’t want to get ahead of ourselves. 

BILL MCDONALD: Yeah. 

ED HUSIC: So we’ll let them make their decision in due course. We believe, like, in terms of this deal, what it does is it gets Australia, Queensland, the most powerful computer on the planet, frontier technology that is going to reshape economies. This type of equipment, when it’s used from aerospace, advanced manufacturing, medicine, energy has the power to crack what conventional computing can’t – the ability to make new materials, like, to be able to come up with new materials used across industry, new medicines and being able to find pathways to those new medicines much quicker. What it can do for industry, what it can also do in an AUKUS II Pillar – in an AUKUS Pillar II sense is help with defence and national security, really important. So for us, instead of us always importing someone’s else idea, we can build our own ideas up and get a lot of benefit out of it. 

BILL MCDONALD: With Russell Mineral Equipment, you’ve pretty much explained the criteria behind choosing this company. Are you – is the government guaranteed a return? 

ED HUSIC: So they – in setting up the commercial deal with the National Reconstruction Fund Corporation, they have to deliver a rate of return. So there will be an expectation that conditions will be met. The full – as you can appreciate, whenever deals are done on financing, there’s stuff that we can talk about at a high level, the finer details get held between the corporation and the company that it’s investing in. But we have an expectation through an investment mandate that is public about the type of rate of return we expect out of the NRF and the conditions as well which people can go online and see. 

BILL MCDONALD: What do you say to Deputy Opposition Leader Sussan Ley’s overall criticism that the government’s promised to save Australian manufacturing had been broken? 

ED HUSIC: Well, I mean, I think it’s a bit hard to accept from Liberal National party who saw off a hundred thousand jobs, manufacturing jobs, in their time in office to lecture us about manufacturing and they haven’t backed anything that we’ve done in the space around manufacturing since they’ve been in opposition. We’ve created 70,000 jobs. We’ve put a clear spotlight on the value of manufacturing. We’re investing in it in a number of ways, not just the NRF but through the Industry Growth Program as well. We’re making sure that the skills get directed through the investments we’re making in TAFE as well. And we could have made the job – it would have been interesting; we tried to shield – or key did effectively shield manufacturers from the worst of energy price rises with no support out of the Coalition. The energy price caps that we put in place were designed to help manufacturers particularly when they’re reliant on gas. Sussan Ley lined up with the rest of the Liberal and National party to vote against that, to vote against that very protection. So, again, you’ll have to excuse me; I’m not willing to take advice from a bunch of people that have not shown that they are fair dinkum about Australian manufacturing. 

BILL MCDONALD: Can I ask you a couple of quick ones before we let you go, just about – a little bit – I talked earlier in the show today about politics making – being played rather than decisions it seems in the best interests of the country. Firstly, Peter Dutton’s decision to side with the Greens and block restrictions on numbers that you’ve put forward, your party has put forward, for international students. 

ED HUSIC: So what’s interesting about that and may not be realised, Peter Dutton said in the budget-in-reply speech that he would back caps for international students. 

BILL MCDONALD: Mmm. 

ED HUSIC: As the Opposition Leader. He hasn’t even got to the election and he’s already broken a promise. Like, this is the big thing – the bloke has broken his own promise, and, in effect, he wants to see higher immigration, not less. 

BILL MCDONALD: It’s curious. It’s a hard one to work out. 

ED HUSIC: And so even if he had issues with the legislation or he wanted to put forward amendments or anything like that, none of that has transpired. None of it has come about. And, you know, I would have imagined that the best thing to do is if he reckons he’s – if he reckons that he can lead a government that can do this better, it’s up to him to chase that and make that case at the election. But we’ve got an issue now to bring immigration to pre-pandemic levels. We’ve said we’re determined to do that. You would think he would work with us on that. Ultimately, apart from the fact you can’t trust him on the commitments that he already breaks before going into an election, the biggest thing I reckon that condemns the way he’s made the decision is he’s put his party interests before the country’s interests, and that is very, very bad. 

BILL MCDONALD: On the flipside, does he have a point when he says it’s an international embarrassment that Chris Bowen the Energy Minister has rejected the opportunity to partner with AUKUS allies the US and UK to try and fast track nuclear civilian energy sources in this country? Shouldn’t it be at least on the table? 

ED HUSIC: Well, unlike Peter Dutton, I mean, we do what we say, right? Like, we have said – 

BILL MCDONALD: Is it in the best interests of the nation, though? 

ED HUSIC: Our – well, yeah, it is actually. Let me come back to that, if I may. 

BILL MCDONALD: Mmm. 

ED HUSIC: The first point is we have been very clear – we are – we think we’ve got to get on with the job of finding new ways to generate energy. We’re not being distracted by a nuclear fantasy which is being pushed by the Coalition. And we think that is the fastest way not only to generate energy but to get prices down. What they’re proposing, Bill, will take yonks to – like, it will take probably 20 years and cost a tonne and particularly lead to higher power prices. So why would we sign up to an agreement on nuclear energy, civil nuclear energy, when we’ve said that’s not what we’re doing? 

BILL MCDONALD: Because 32 other countries in the world are doing it, including our AUKUS allies the US and UK. Are they wrong? 

ED HUSIC: And, mate, they have – on that point, they have developed those industries over many, many years. And we have not embarked on that because it will require billions of dollars to do and will take too long to do. 

BILL MCDONALD: The renewables is now recosted at 642 billion, though, up from 122 billion. 

ED HUSIC: That is – like, I think we’re going to have a disagreement on those figures. I will make the point it’s nowhere near that. 

BILL MCDONALD: Okay. 

ED HUSIC: And the reality is that in terms of what we’re trying to do versus what they’re trying to do, in terms of the cost and the ability to get it done, mate, it is just going to take too long and cost too much and is a distraction, yet again, from the need for us to just get moving on this stuff. And if we do it right, we mobilise Australian industry to make the things that can generate power or reduce emissions, we can get ourselves closer to net zero, but, importantly, we can create jobs and industry opportunity right here in this country. 

BILL MCDONALD: All right. Before we go, rumours are there’s going to be an early election. Can you give us any heads up? 

ED HUSIC: Unfortunately – 

BILL MCDONALD: It’s worth a try. 

ED HUSIC: I cannot break news on your program, my friend. But I – look, it could be absolutely it’s in the hands of the Prime Minister. You know, the understanding is that prime ministers can make that call at any time. You know, clearly it’s due some time in the first half of next year, and we’ll just wait and see what happens. But, you know, I think it will be a – you know, the big focus for us has been to be able to help people out with cost of living but also invest in the long-term good of the country. I know a lot of listeners get sick and tired of governments only playing for one day at a time. A lot of the stuff in my space is about building a stronger economy particularly for the ones that follow us and the generations of Australians that follow us and that we can stand on our own two feet and get things done. 

BILL MCDONALD: All right.

ED HUSIC: So, I think, you know, there’s a combo of things there but I won’t – I’ll get off my soapbox – 

BILL MCDONALD: No, look, it was worth a try. I had to ask. I appreciate your time. 

ED HUSIC: All good, mate. Good on you. All the best to you. 

BILL MCDONALD: Thank you. Minister for Industry and Science Ed Husic.