BRET MURRAY: It’s just gone 14 to 8, and the Federal Member for Parkes, Mark Coulton, you don’t want the song I was just playing to you. Good morning, Mark. How are you?

MARK COULTON: Good morning, Bret.

BRET MURRAY: I faded it out really quickly.

MARK COULTON: If it’s not Slim Dusty, I don’t want to know about it.

BRET MURRAY: The gremlins are in, but the gremlins are not with you – you’ve brought the Labor Resources Minister Madeleine King. Good morning to you.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Good morning, Bret. It’s really great to be here in Mark’s great seat of Parkes. Nearly half the state of New South Wales is represented. It's really amazing.

BRET MURRAY: It is a big seat, isn’t it? Yeah. No, it’s nice to have you. And, Mark, of course, you’re accompanying the minister out to Toongi today for a quick visit to the rare earths mine. My understanding is that that’s a project ready to go.

MARK COULTON: Yeah, and it’s certainly one that’s of significant importance to the country as, you know, a lot of what’s going to be dug up out of that hill at Toongi are the minerals that are needed for modern technology, whether it's electricity, you know, generation batteries, military aircraft, jet engines, all sorts of things. I can’t pronounce half the words – they all end in “ine”. But it’s significantly important. And this project has been going on probably over a decade now, and there’s been sort of significant changes over the time, but, yeah, this is – you know, I’m pleased that Minister Madeleine King is here because this is a significant project that’s relevant to the whole of the country, not just Dubbo.

BRET MURRAY: Yeah, and Minister King, I’m sure that you’ve also agreed to that sentiment. I mean, this is the future of Australia, isn’t it, with these rare earths minerals.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yeah, Bret, I know you might find it hard to believe, but I think actually Mark’s underselling it a little bit. The truth is ASM’s Dubbo project is not just important to Australia; it’s important to the western world. This project is literally talked about in the halls of the White House – it’s that important – along with the other rare earths projects in this country. So we’re pleased as a government today I’ll be announcing a $5 million grant as a feasibility study around how they can improve and make their processes of processing more efficient. But we’ve also got the Export Finance Australia has a letter of support for $200 million. And even the US Export Import Bank, a really important institution in America, has committed hundreds of millions of dollars to this project.

BRET MURRAY: And that’s what you’re saying that that’s why it’s so important – not just on the country front but a world fronting. My understanding, reading some of the quick info I was trying to prep for the interview, suggests that much of what is found here at Toongi will also help our military defences as well, is that correct?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Absolutely. So rare earths go into a lot of products, these technological products, permanent magnets. And permanent magnets are in everything. They’re in a lot of the equipment here in this studio but also they go into radar systems and sonar systems, targeting systems, missiles. There are 4 tonnes of rare earths in a Virginia class submarine. So it just goes to show how important that is for our relationships with the US but also for the technology that will defend our country.

BRET MURRAY: And my understanding is that Australian Strategic Materials, who looks after this mine, also looks after the Tomingley gold mine, or there is a subsidiary or somehow. Can you explain how that works for our listeners?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yeah, I mean, I don’t pretend to know all the corporate ins and outs, but, yeah, Alkane demerged from ASM a few years ago to concentrate on the gold project. So we’ll be talking to them about that too.

BRET MURRAY: Yeah, for sure. So you’ll get a briefing on the project, because I was reading online last night that it’s ready to go.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yeah.

BRET MURRAY: So what are we waiting on – or you don’t know that yet?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, for the rare earths side of things, they’ve got to get their processes right, finish off their funding, but they’re really very much well on the way. As I said, it’s talked about in very important places in the world. So we expect ASM to have this project up and running, and it really is going to be at the heart of the New South Wales critical minerals and rare earths industry for right now but also well into the future.

MARK COULTON: And, Bret, on a local – what it means locally is they’ve got to do a lot of work. They’re funding work on the road out to the mine, on out past the zoo. There’s got to be some soundproofing around the zoo. The railway line has got to be re-invigorated from Dubbo out to Toongi, the old mine that used to go out [indistinct] way. And so there’s significant work to be done there as well as the minister said, the processing plant and the like.

BRET MURRAY: So time line wise, how long are we thinking here, Mark?

MARK COULTON: Look, I’d – it’s a number of years away.

BRET MURRAY: Yeah.

MARK COULTON: But we’ll get a clearer idea when we’ve spoken to them today.

BRET MURRAY: And Minister King, with this project, it will bring about a thousand jobs as well.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: That’s right.

BRET MURRAY: Yeah.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yeah, see, and there’s associated jobs. I mean, you can’t replace local knowledge like Mark’s here. So there’s all that work on the mine itself and then the processing plant, but then there’s the infrastructure and supporting infrastructure around it that comes with it. So a thousand jobs for Dubbo, which I think is a great thing for such a famous regional community.

BRET MURRAY: I know there’s a few projects somewhere – I can’t remember where all of them are – is this the first rare earths project for Australia or is this a number of them?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: There’s a few. There’s not a whole lot but there’s Lynas rare earths in Kalgoorlie, which is another really important project; Arafura in Alice Springs, which is very significant and also is receiving some government support; and Iluka in Eneabba in Western Australia is another, and there’s the Dubbo project, which is the major east coast project.

BRET MURRAY: And, I guess, with your fundraising – not fundraising – your funding announcement – excuse me – you know, it just really means how important this is to the government.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: That’s right. So they’ve got a grant out of a critical minerals initiative on top of one earlier this year in developing this project, and then the former government under the Modern Manufacturing Initiative supported ASM. So there’s been a lot of interest from consecutive governments in helping ASM get this project up.

BRET MURRAY: Mark Coulton, it must be nice in your final year of politics to see something like this come through?

MARK COULTON: Yeah, look, it’s good. I’ve been working on this for a long time. When I was Assistant Trade Minister I was involved in changing the legislation around the Export Finance Investment Corporation to say that they were able to obtain support through that organisation. So it is good. Like, you know, politics, a lot of it goes unseen, you know. Every now and then you get to jump up and down in front of a TV camera or something, but that’s not the real work. The real work is done when no-one’s watching. And, you know, that’s why it’s important. And also I think it’s important to understand that most of the time we work collaboratively. You know, people turn on the TV and think that its World War III and everyone hates each other. But, you know, I’ve been speaking to Minister Madeleine King about this for some time and it’s – you know, I’m thrilled that she’s out here today to see it. But, you know, if you’re looking at the significance, too, at the moment China dominates the rare earths market of the world. And that’s why there’s significant interest from other countries, including South Korea, who have already got significant interests out here at Toongi, to get a supply of these critical minerals that don’t have to come through China.

BRET MURRAY: And, Minister King, this is not just about, you know, supporting a community or supporting Australia, but I’m sure that you can’t just apply for a mining licence and then start digging. So ecologically and land wise, I’m sure that there’s been some red tape that they’ve had to go through?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, yes, there is always environmental approvals, and that’s because, you know, we want to protect the environment, but we also want to mine the products we need to have the technology that we really love. So those environmental processes are important. ASM have met all of those. And if there’s any more to do I know they’ll embrace them. And we’ve certainly not seen any issues with the work they’re doing. But companies need to do and seek those approvals so they maintain their community support as well. And I think that’s a really important part of the puzzle. And the earlier projects engage with that system I think the better.

BRET MURRAY: Mark, has there been any opposition to the mine?

MARK COULTON: No, no. This one, I think – because it’s been, you know, a long time coming, you know, ASM, Mike Sutherland has represented Alkane and ASM in Dubbo for a long time, he’s well regarded. And so, no, I think there’s quite an awareness. And these jobs also are highly skilled. You know, there’s jobs for engineers and chemists and a whole – you know, they’re very, very highly sought after. And even – you know, I think there’s even discussions about talking to local school students here about some of their subject choices so that if they want to take up opportunities, the sort of skills that they would need. And, you know, you talked about sustainability. They – I think it’s about 10,000 acres they’ve got out there now on the site where the various farms they’ve purchased, they’re looking at very sustainable farming practices. Madeleine will see that today. And so the landscape that’s not – you know, the mine itself is not a very big area; it’s a very concentrated mineral. And so there’s a lot of area surrounding that where they’ll be managing, you know, the processing but also they’ll be running livestock as well.

BRET MURRAY: And Minister King, I was reading that some of these deposits, there’s enough there for, I think, it was 26 years into the future, is that right?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yeah, well, most of these mines are predicted between 20 to 30-year mine life, and sometimes they extend. And sometimes they extend. And that’s why, as Mark was saying, the work of people that are now in primary school and high school is going to be so important as they, you know, seek to do subjects like geology or geophysics as they go further along their educational pathways. Because that’s exactly the kind of people and the skills we will need. Chemical processing will be really important to make this project get up but also to turn those oxides that are going to come out of Dubbo into the products that everyone wants. So I think it’s a really important opportunity for the community.

BRET MURRAY: And just on the environmental front, the Toongi Pastoral Company has been set up to look after the land as well. So there are protections in place for that?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: There are protections in place. You know, agriculture and mining have to live together. It’s a really important part of our national story, about how land use can work together. We also know that mineral sands and rare earths projects have a really good record in rehabilitation after the mining passes through and it gets returned to being farmland again. So that will be part of the story of ASM as well. And really importantly for the production they’re doing, they’ll be entitled to production tax credits, which is a sort of a 10 per cent discount on the work they’re doing so that we make sure we process more of these rare earths right here in Australia.

BRET MURRAY: What is the government hoping, what are you hoping to hear from Alkane Resources today when you meet with them?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: I’m really just – I want to see their progress. I’m really excited about their progress. I know a lot about their project just from having spoken to – well, in Canberra, of course, but also literally around the world, around the ASM project. So I’ll be looking forward to the updates, their progress on their processing facilities and how they plan to manage it and also their engagement with the community.

BRET MURRAY: Mark Coulton, the same question to you: what are you hoping they’ll tell the minister today?

MARK COULTON: Well, there’s nothing like, you know – when you’re a minister, there’s nothing like seeing it with your own eyes. So, you know, clearly, Madeleine will now after today have a sort of an imprint in her brain of where the site is, some of the, you know, obstacles, if there’s, you know, things pop up that need some sort of attention, she’ll know what that looks like. You know, I’ve been out there quite a few times and the irony of all of this is that the most valuable part of this mine site would have been the least valuable part of the farm – a big rocky hill in the middle of the farm. And so it’s – you know, and this is an exciting project, but it takes a long time. So it’s not just a matter of ASM building this; it will – as I say, it’s getting the workforce through and then, you know, that rolls into housing issues and a whole range of other things. So those things will be dealt with over a period of time.

BRET MURRAY: Resources Minister Madeleine King, it’s lovely to meet you. Thanks for stopping by 2DU Breakfast. I hope you enjoy your Dubbo visit.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: I’m sure I will. And I want to thank Mark for inviting me down here to come and see ASM.

BRET MURRAY: Absolutely. And thanks for inviting the minister in, Mark Coulton. It’s really a pleasure to see you.

MARK COULTON: Always, always. And as per usual, every guest here loves your carpet, Bret.

BRET MURRAY: Thank you. Everywhere.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: It really is everywhere.