SABRA LANE: Madeleine King is the Federal Resources Minister. 

Minister, thanks for joining AM.

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: It's a pleasure to be here. Sabra, thanks for having me.

SABRA LANE: Environmentalists and some within your own party will be pretty cranky with this policy. Critics say the resource needs to stay in the ground. How will you convince them that this is the strategy Australia needs?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, the Future Gas Strategy is driven by facts and data, so we've had an extensive amount of time we spent on producing an analytical report which will be published alongside the strategy. And that's a report that brings together the vast amounts of studies that have been done on gas supply and demand and a lot of forecasts around gas and not all of which are extensive and reliable. We've drawn the best that we can while taking in public submissions from the community, from environmental groups, from local councils, from unions and also from the industry. So, there's a lot of - we've heard from a lot of people around how they think gas should be used within our economy in the context of net zero.

SABRA LANE: Well, under this policy, how much gas will be used for Australia's own energy requirements by, well, 2030 and 2050?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, the strategy goes through that and the thing about it is it hard to predict. But what we do know is there will be a need for gas because there are many uses for gas that we can't substitute. We hope to substitute, but we don't know when that will be possible. So, what I'm talking about there is the processing of critical minerals or some high heat manufacturing uses which we hope we'll be able to use hydrogen for. And indeed, we're investing in the research in that, and so are other countries as well, and companies. But in the meantime, you can't have wishful thinking that that might happen without having the backup, which is gas. So, the 5 million households around the country that rely on gas for their heating and energy whilst we transition to electrification, that gas needs to be affordable. And to be affordable you need a reliable supply.

SABRA LANE: The Gas Reservation Policy seems to have worked well in WA. Should proposed fields in Narrabri in NSW and Beetaloo up in the Northern Territory be guaranteeing supplies for domestic use to ensure there isn't a shortfall?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, my understanding around Narrabri is indeed, they have committed for that to be a domestic use field. And that's what will happen. That's what Santos have committed to the New South Wales Government about. The New South Wales Government has a sensible conversation, which I'm sure they've already done with Santos. That's exactly the result they can achieve. So, I think that one's a very helpful example to point to around how producers and the State Governments can work together to make sure there is supply. And if Narrabri comes online, it relieves quite a lot of pressure on the gas supply in that state because it doesn't produce any gas at all. But more importantly for everyday consumers, it will make it more affordable because the gas sits close to the demand. So, it's important that we decrease demand at the same time. But you've got to have the gas to firm up the renewables to 2030 and beyond. So, Narrabri is important.

SABRA LANE: The Federal Authority has just given approval to key infrastructure for Chevron's Gorgon project in WA to produce about 3 billion tonnes of CO2 equivalent missions during the next 50 years. That's what will happen, according to The Australia Institute. And it points out that this approval has come despite Chevron failing to achieve carbon capture and storage targets, which were a condition of the project's original approvals. Is that right?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: I haven't seen that report, I've got to say. But I'm happy to talk about the Gorgon carbon capture and storage project and it hasn't reached its targets. That's absolutely correct. And I think Chevron would be the first to say those targets were a bit ambitious for a project that has a lot of challenges. But the thing is, they're working with the State Government on that problem. They have paid to the State Government monies as penalties for not reaching their targets and set about abating, but in other ways. But importantly - 

SABRA LANE: Why then should further approval be given if they're having problems meeting current conditions?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Because they have already sequestered 9 million tonnes of CO2. So, they might not have met targets, and I accept that. But what they have done is still remarkable and it is still the largest CCS project in the world. So, what they are doing is important and if they get it right, and we should encourage Chevron to invest their money into their research to get it right, they will achieve what the International Energy Agency is calling for, which is more CCS projects, to make sure we sequester CO2 so we can indeed reach net zero by 2050. Because, as the International Agency has said a number of times, without CCS, we won't reach net zero. So, I don't think carbon capture is the only answer. It's far from it. Absolutely. There are so many things we need to do to reach net zero. We need to drive down demand, we need to capture gas, we need to move away from gas as much as we can, where we can. But the thing is, in many uses we cannot. And until other alternatives are viable, like hydrogen, that gas and low emissions gas will be needed.

SABRA LANE: Thanks Minister, for talking to AM. 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: A pleasure. Thank you, Sabra. 

SABRA LANE: The Federal Resources Minister, Madeleine King.