GREG JENNETT: Madeleine King, welcome back to the program. Now, the Senate, as we speak, is continuing to debate laws that would enable carbon capture and storage in sub-sea burial offshore from Australia. What's the practical purpose to which these laws once passed, and they will, will be put?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, the current legislation will enable carbon capture use and storage in certain fields, not necessarily in Australia, but particularly in the Bayu-Undan field, which is part of Timor-Leste Territory. So, this is about enabling CO2 to move across borders, whereas Australia has its own offshore CCS regime, which I administer as part of my role. And we've had releases of carbon capture storage acreage twice since we've come into government, which enables the storage of carbon dioxide in reservoirs under the sea, which is eminently suitable for that purpose and can hold that CO2 for a very, very long time, millennia even, which is incredibly important to us reaching net zero emissions goals.

GREG JENNETT. So, is it essential to Australia meeting its own goals that these laws are put into place?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, the International Energy Agency has said that CCS is going to be essential for the world to meet global energy goals. So, it's not just for Australia, it's other countries around the world are using CCS. Also, the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has also said CCS will be required for us to be able to reach net zero. When I say us, I mean the globe. So, Australia, playing its part in making sure we manage our carbon appropriately, is a part of the CCS story and therefore a part of this legislation.

GREG JENNETT: Okay, last one on this. For Timor-Leste and its ambitions in gas, what difference will this make?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, this concerns a field called the Bayu-Undan Field, which is depleted of gas and it will be empty. There is potential there then for Timor-Leste to be able to store CO2 within it. And that's very important for them and for us and for those that are causing the emissions to be able to store them so they can reach net zero [indistinct].

GREG JENNETT: Is that profitable for them, potentially?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yes, it is. It should be. And we know we need to assist Timor-Leste in developing and diversifying its economy. They are good friends and neighbours, and we want to be able to support them in that cause.

GREG JENNETT: All right, let's bring it back home. You were in the USA, as I was, in fact, involved in very important discussions, in your case on the Critical Minerals Task Force. Since then, we've heard Jim Chalmers say that Australia is not going to reach net zero in 2050. On current settings. He's talking about Australia not competing head-to-head with the US Inflation Reduction Act, but coming up with its own unique variant. You said last week the IRA represents a significant opportunity for Australia to build on our alliance and become a key partner with the US. Which one is it? Do we become essentially a 51st state with the US around inflation reduction, critical minerals extraction and processing, or do we go it alone as a sovereign industry?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, I think the demand and the urgency around reaching net zero is so large that the whole world needs to work together. So, we will work with the US and we'll work with other partners as well. But my view is that the Treasurer was saying that this is an enormous challenge, and we know that. And what makes it even more challenging is we're off a standing start after ten years of inaction. So, this is going to be challenging for our economy, but it's something we know we need to do to stop dangerous climate change. As for the Inflation Reduction Act, as a smaller economy with a much smaller population, Australia doesn't have that level of capital to inject like the US does. So, we need to use what we're good at, our natural advantages. We use smarts, not subsidies, but also we turn to our geology. The thing you cannot change is our geology. So, we will continue to extract and process, but we will use the benefit of the Inflation Reduction Act and investment from partners such as that in the US to invest in industries in Australia, to bring jobs into Australia, which benefits us all.

GREG JENNETT. So, in context then, the $4 billion Critical Minerals Financing Facility that you enlarged only last week, it's very much at the margins then, viewed in context of what the US is doing, would you agree?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, I think what the extension of the Critical Minerals Facility will enable is Export Finance Australia, who manage it, to work with the US Export Import Bank. And that's another thing we agreed to when I was in Washington just the other week to make sure our two export finance institutions of government can work together to identify projects to invest in for the mutual benefit of our nations. We know we do things very well in Australia with extraction and we want to do better in refining, we want to build more of those precursor materials here. We also know we can send some of that further developed product to the US to aid their manufacturing sector. So, by working together, we'll meet those challenges.

GREG JENNETT: Do you have any quantification in your own mind about how far short Australia is on investment in the very things you're talking about processing, refining of critical minerals?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: I don't have a quantum on it, but what I absolutely do know from recently travelling to Washington, but also in the fortnight before that through Europe, is the demand for Australia's critical minerals and rare earths is very high because, again, our geology is unique. We have what the world wants, but we want to be able to process more of it here. And we also want to extract and refine and process it in a responsible manner. So, I know we have to work as a government to attract that investment into this country. We need to work with governments around the world, but also investment vehicles and corporations around the world. And that's exactly what we're doing to make sure we get all the investment we need.

GREG JENNETT: Some of this cuts home into projects like AUKUS. And you delivered a speech on this, Madeleine King, only last week. I think you cited a study that said a Virginia-class nuclear-powered submarine needs over four tonnes of rare earth in its manufacture and operation. Is there an understanding that, like storage of nuclear material, when those submarines need to be retired, Australia will have to substantially provide for the minerals needed with these submarines?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, that is the primary market for these rare earths. It's in a lot of day-to-day technology, but also defence applications. And that's very important to our security and to that of our friends and partners. And to take an example, from the Critical Minerals Facility, the Australian Government has made a loan of $1.2 billion to Iluka, which is the rare earths refinery being built in Eneabba in Western Australia. I'm actually visiting it later this week. So, that is a really important investment in local capacity, making sure we refine the rare earths that we need for what we want to make, but also that partners that have large defence industries can have a secure supply chain through Australia into the US.

GREG JENNETT: All right, well, we'll keep across that one with you. Very quickly and finally, Prime Minister's on his visit to China. We don't exactly know what President Xi or other interlocutors will request of Australia, but if they raise something that has been raised before, a relaxation of Australia's foreign investment rules, particularly as they relate to critical minerals and the like, is Australia open to that?

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: The Foreign Investment Review Board is a very well trusted, highly respected institution. It will keep doing what it's doing. It acts in our national interest to make sure that there is community confidence in foreign investment into whatever sector you care to name, whether it's agriculture or resources or even more specifically like critical minerals. So, I'll leave the decisions up to the FIRB, but what I know is I trust what they do and I believe it's a really important institution for the community to have faith in, just as I do.

GREG JENNETT: All right, let's see if in fact, it is raised in those discussions there in Beijing. Madeleine King, great to see you again. Thanks for joining.

​MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Thanks, Greg.