MATTHEW DORAN: Well on the Microsoft deal, we spoke to the Industry and Science Minister, Ed Husic just before coming on the air.

Ed Husic. Welcome back to Afternoon Briefing. $5 billion is a pretty significant investment from Microsoft. What exactly is the Government expecting it will see in Australia as a result of this money coming in?

ED HUSIC, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SCIENCE: I guess a number of things. I mean, the first thing to emphasise here is this is a huge vote of confidence in Australia. It's a recognition that our country is really leaning into the proposition that technology plays an important part in sharpening our economy, strengthening our businesses, creating great jobs. We've got a talent pool here that Microsoft can tap into and that can skill up and that also businesses really want to be able to access the type of products Microsoft will provide through what it's offering, the investments it's making with the 5 billion in its new data centres. And what we'll see, is we'll see $5 billion investment into nearly ten new data centres across NSW, and Victoria joining the other 20 that are already there. It'll provide cloud and AI products to businesses that are wanting to sharpen up the way that they operate. It'll see an investment, in particular, like digital tradies that will help maintain the data centres or provide digital skills across the broader economy, working with TAFE, targeting Western Sydney first. And it'll also provide some important work and investment to team up with us on cybersecurity as well. So, there's a range of different things that get unlocked by this investment that the Prime Minister announced in Washington that are important for the longer-term good of the economy and jobs.

MATTHEW DORAN: A couple of things to unpack there. Let's start with the jobs side of things. You've described it as something of an untapped workforce here in Australia. Is it untapped in terms of the skills already being there or people showing an interest in wanting to get into this area and not actually having those pathways, so therefore not going into TAFE courses or uni courses and studying these sort of things?

ED HUSIC: I think we realised through the course of the pandemic and with the fact that so many people had to conduct work outside of an office using technology, we then realised, and it really emphasised the value of technology in helping economies go and get through some of their toughest challenges. And I think there's a realisation amongst people that these are jobs that will be here for the long term but require some investment in skills. So, TAFE and what we're doing through fee-free TAFE, the National Skills Agreement, industry chipping in, like what Microsoft is doing in this announcement, is providing pathways for people to get trained up and the work itself, either through TAFE or through uni, this will be long term important work for the economy. And there's also, if you see internationally, so many countries are investing in technology because they know the edge it gives to their economies and through the use of things like AI, where you can do things faster, more efficiently, cheaper, this is going to be really vital for Australian business long-term as well. So, getting people trained up really important. And just to let you know, and just to remind people, we committed as a new government to a target of getting 1.2 million Australians in tech-related jobs by 2030. Not because we're necessarily building a host of new tech firms, but because Australian industry is crying out for these skills, because they realise how important it is for them, not just now, but to get ahead into the future as well.

MATTHEW DORAN: Clearly, there's a big focus on issues around cybersecurity here as well. And I note that Microsoft's going to be working with the Australian Signals Directorate. So, that's the agency where our cyber spies are all working away, trying to protect the nation. Why is it important to have those partnerships between intelligence agencies and the private sector?

ED HUSIC: Well, I have to tip my hat to Microsoft. I mean, I visited them in Seattle nearly ten years ago when they were setting up their own monitoring centres in Redmond and urging industry to work a lot more collaboratively if they were under attack, to let people know, or Microsoft would do some of that work as well, of letting sectors know that they're vulnerable. So, Microsoft has invested in this space for a considerable period of time. We recognise, particularly off the back of things like Optus and Medibank, that the country really needs to accelerate its investment and preparedness. Cyber Security Minister Clare O'Neil has done a mountain of work in getting together and will be releasing our cybersecurity strategy to help government and industry work closer together. And these type of investments, like what Microsoft have announced, really demonstrate the preparedness of industry to work with government. And we're sending a signal, particularly through Minister O'Neil, that we want to work together to ramp up our cyber defences and make sure there's trust in technology. Because in the absence of that trust, Matt, people will potentially take a step back from using technology in the workplace. And we just can't afford that, given the huge advantages if we get this right.

MATTHEW DORAN: Is it also a sense of because of companies like Microsoft, they hold the keys here, they hold the information. They've built these systems that have grown and grown and grown and become so ubiquitous in our lives that without their interaction and their partnership, that organisations like ASD are going to be somewhat curtailed in what they can do.

ED HUSIC: I don't necessarily think that, but I get where you're coming from. I mean, it really helps ASD do its job to partner with industry. It just makes perfect sense. And also, the way that the world has moved, Matt, is instead of investing a lot in hardware that you have to maintain or upgrade to invest in new equipment, by storing your information in the cloud, in equipment that's held by big companies like Microsoft, you get the assurance that they're making sure that their cyber defences are strong. You can lever off the investments they're making in artificial intelligence to be able to tap into that and apply it in your own business. And it gives business that sense of comfort and confidence that they can rely on those products to do what they need to help businesses grow here. And in terms of AI, I referenced it earlier. I mean, it can crunch through lots of data really quickly and really efficiently and help you identify trends or different ways of working that sharpen up your business. And we need to be able, as much as everyone will focus on the risks, and we do need to do that in terms of AI, we also have to recognise it’s delivering huge benefits commercially and in a broader societal sense. And being able to use cloud-based platforms, the type of stuff that Microsoft is working with, it just provides us with a huge advantage.

MATTHEW DORAN: Before we let you go, Ed Husic, you made some comments last week regarding the conflict in the Middle East and effectively saying that you held deep concerns for the plight of innocent Palestinians who have been caught up in this conflict. You used terms such as the collective punishment. You worried about Israel collectively punishing people in Gaza for the actions of Hamas. It's been well canvassed what your views are there. I want to go to the reaction that's spurred forth from that. Have you been surprised how that's been received, that people seem to think that you were breaking ranks with your fellow frontbenchers?

ED HUSIC: Well, if I can point to the fact that I've received quite a lot of positive feedback from people who are equally concerned about the potential for this conflict to put a huge burden on a lot of people that are innocent and quite separate to this issue. And I have been overwhelmed in terms of the contact to my office or through email and social media where people have welcomed that. We're just trying to get a bit of balance, a bit of focus on innocent Palestinians that may be affected by what's going on. I think no one disputes that Israel needs to be able to respond to the terrible events of October 7 that happened on their soil that had such a huge and devastating impact on Israeli families. And people understand Hamas needs to be held to account, but there is genuinely a concern in the community. I am only one of many that's expressed this concern and I think it's important that we get that balance right. To be frank, I think it would be weird for me to apologise trying to express a view that says, can we just please take into account the toll that is being borne by innocent Palestinians, in terms of what we're seeing, and to find a strategic, more precise way to deal with Hamas, which we appreciate that Israel will undertake to hold those people to account.

MATTHEW DORAN: A sentiment I'm sure many share, Ed Husic, even if they're not expressing it in as explicit terms as you are in this debate. Ed Husic for your time today, thanks so much for joining us.

ED HUSIC: Thanks, Matt.

ENDS