GREG JENNETT: The word "quantum" is probably more readily associated with a James bond movie for many Australians than it is for cutting edge scientific research, but along with AI, quantum is definitely the next frontier in science and commerce. The Australian Government's thinking in this area and has today released a strategy to guide what happens. 

Industry and Science Minister, Ed Husic, explained it when he joined us here a few moments ago. Ed Husic, good to have you back in the studio once again. You are dealing with quantum physics, really high end science today releasing a national strategy. Within that is up to a billion dollars from your National Reconstruction Fund. What will it do? 

ED HUSIC, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SCIENCE: I'm sure there will be a quantum scientist out there that is horrified in the way that I try to simplify all this, but it's putting atoms to work; literally putting atoms to work, in some cases, with the research that we have done since the late 50s in quantum, now trying to apply it in the commercial and industrial sense, really important, creating the bridge for that is why we've launched the nation's first quantum strategy today, to be able to unlock power and technologies it will truly transformative. 

And being able to, for example, discover new medicines way quicker and way cheaper than what has been done in the past through quantum computing, through to what I saw today in Canberra, one quantum company that’s dropping atoms from a plane to be able to help discover new mineral deposits in the Northern Territory, which they've already started doing. That's the type of technology, like I said, putting atoms to work. 

GREG JENNETT: It's diverse frontier you're working on there. But why is this a race that Australia can win, noting that Google, IBM, the UK and the US are already very well advanced in research, and/or commercialisation in this area, playing catch up? 

ED HUSIC: You're absolutely right to note we're up against some really tough competition, but that competition very much rates our skill. When you look at the output of research from our people relative to our size and who we're up against, we stand very proudly, and people are rated for what they're able to achieve, and we've got people from Michelle Simmons and onwards, that are doing some really ground-breaking work. 

A lot of our firms are being sought after to potentially move to other countries, but a lot of the founders want to stay here, and what they want is to see interest out of government and business; they want to see the investment support that might extend to them, and be able to put it to work in practical ways, and again, that's why we've got the National Reconstruction Fund, and why we want to put a National Quantum Strategy, pair those up to make sure that we're a world leader. 

GREG JENNETT: And you can anchor those firms here? 

ED HUSIC: Correct. 

GREG JENNETT: I notice within the strategy there are different chapters. One deals with ethic, could potentially compromise national security communications of America, but by implication anyone. Explain that risk to Australia. 

ED HUSIC: Well, let's take, for example, a lot of the security that people have in place and the passcodes that they use, the assumption is that the work that would be required to break those passcodes, it would take years for classic computers, classical computers, conventional computers to break that, whereas the computing power that's unleashed by quantum computing can potentially do that in hours or minutes. 

And so that is the big concern about whoever gets that, and how do we prepare to transition into a post quantum world as well, because there's a whole lot of  ...  

GREG JENNETT: Because the nation states need to be - well, potentially even criminals or other rogues, if that is the potential, that could unleash all sorts of damage? 

ED HUSIC: Let me just, to give assurance in the minds of viewers, quantum computers, you will not be able to go to JB Hi Fi and buy a quantum computer, right, because the hardware is completely different, and on top of the hardware is software that has to be redone. It's not like we can port the apps from our iPhone on to a quantum computer, so the skill, the capability level is phenomenally higher. 

But we do need to make sure that countries have that capability and invest in it. The capability, quantum capabilities, there will be an expectation around AUKUS in Pillar 2, that we can step forward with those capabilities, and again, that's why we've developed the first National Quantum Strategy to start that process of sharpening up, muscling up, as it were, in a technological sense, and so that we're ready    

GREG JENNETT: Would you seek to use them offensively? I mean if the US and its friends in AUKUS did manage to discover the computing technology that could unlock encryption in a country that might be seen as an adversary, is that the way you see it being used in the military domain? 

ED HUSIC: I think it's largely from a perspective - of a defensive perspective - of being ready, and we need to start thinking differently about encryption longer term about, as I said, in a post quantum world, how do we reshape all, like for classic computers, plus quantum, how do we move into that environment and be prepared for it, and again, we need to think ahead. So that's really critical. 

But for what quantum computing, if I can say, Greg, it will be able to help solve those problems that we just can't do with conventional computers at the moment because of huge computational power, quantum sensing and what it will be able to help with as well, like I said a few moments ago, and communications, and the economic benefit of that will be huge, and we were elected on a platform when one of our motivations for the National Reconstruction Fund was to have that capital available to help transform industry. 

We want to be able to do that, and having a strategy that has been devised in conjunction with industry that highlights the things we need to work on, being able to put that to work over the next few years, it's the stuff that people expect governments will think about, they don't say that they necessarily - the broader public won't necessarily get into the complexity of quantum. 

GREG JENNETT: No. 

ED HUSIC: But they do expect governments to think about it, and we want to give an assurance; one, we're thinking about it, planning for it, and developing ways in which to seize the opportunities long term. 

GREG JENNETT: And full disclosure, I can't say I fully understand it, but I'm just asking the questions. On a more traditional ...    

ED HUSIC: There were some quantum physicists who had taken out the Nobel Prize for science a few years ago who were asked to explain quantum physics simply, and they said no. 

GREG JENNETT: Right. 

ED HUSIC: Because it is horrendously complex, but when it's applied properly, and that's what we're trying to do, people just expect that you get on - the Government should get on and businesses should on with this, and that's what we're trying to do. 

GREG JENNETT: That puts me in good company. Carbon capture and storage, since you're talking today, as always, about the National Reconstruction Fund, we've had the Beetaloo Basin gas announcement by the Northern Territory Government bounding ahead with that. Do you foresee that carbon capture and storage which could become part of these projects would be covered by the NRF? 

ED HUSIC: In terms of the National Reconstruction Fund being structured around loans, guarantees and equity, whoever steps forward to the independent board, the board will make a decision about whether or not a rate of return can be delivered; does it fit within one of the priority areas - energy is one of those areas, and also emerging technologies, and what we're trying to do is ensure that the manufacture of the technology occurs onshore so we can invest in it, right? 

So it would need to stack up, it would need to be able to be feasible in terms of what's being proposed, and that it can make a rate of return or return the investment to the taxpayers. 

GREG JENNETT: Understood. Where will that leave you with your undertakings with the Greens though, in the context of forming the NRF in the first place? 

ED HUSIC: No, I think - look, if this stacked up, it would be one thing that potentially could be invested in. I'm cautious - the reason for my hesitation is more because we've deliberately set up the fund that an independent board makes those decisions, but the technology, just to be completely direct with you, I am not anti this technology, and I'm not all pro it. I still think it's got a long way to go to be developed and to prove that it works at scale. 

But you know, I've watched technology for many years, and what is believed today to be impossible, somehow in a few years' time becomes potentially possible, and if it can work, and if we can extract carbon and prevent its emission in terms of through industrial processes, it's worth looking at, but at this stage it's got a long way to go. 

GREG JENNETT: All right. Watch this space, and we'll talk about it further. Ed Husic. Thanks. 

ED HUSIC: It's a pleasure.

ENDS