PATRICIA KARVELAS: How energy efficient is your home? With the price of energy rapidly increasing over the last year, the government is hoping to place that question front and centre for Australian households. A new tool will be rolled out to identify just how efficient your home is and help you compare homes if you’re in the market. 

Ed Husic is the Minister for Industry and Science, and I spoke to him a short time ago. Minister, welcome to the program. 

ED HUSIC, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SCIENCE: Good morning, how are you? 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Good thank you. Before we get into your announcement, I want to just start with the Reserve Bank review that was released yesterday. Just three of the nine current board members setting interest rates have a financial background. Has that been a factor in the bank’s missteps in your view? 

ED HUSIC: I think the review needs to be considered against the backdrop of something like this hasn’t really happened for a while. Everyone agrees it’s healthy that from time to time you look at your operations and see what can be done better, differently. And we’ve tried to do that in that way, to make sure the RBA is fit for purpose in modern times. 

I think the issues you’re raising in terms of expertise, they do get – clearly they’re going to be something that we think about deeply, specifically the Treasurer who makes the recommendations to cabinet. I’d be very careful about drawing positions about previous decisions made by the RBA and the quality of people on there because I just think it’s too hard to make that link. I think people do want the RBA to take a broader set of factors into account and hence the emphasis on jobs that you’ve seen that we’ve put in there. And I think this is, you know, an important reform whose time is well and truly due. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Yeah, you mentioned that employment objective. The other change is this focus on full employment. But does the RBA need to be challenging its own assumption that a certain level of unemployment is required to keep inflation at a target level? Aren’t there other ways to balance the economy? 

ED HUSIC: Well, I think – look, again, those type of questions are being put actively in public arena to the RBA. And I know having sat on parliamentary committees where the RBA has had to come in and report back, I do know that they take that type of thing into account. They’re conscious of it. You know, people can have an argument about, you know, how much they take it into account, sure, but I do think they – you know, having a broader set of factors that are taking into consideration when they are making decisions, I think that’s a helpful thing and a more solid decision that is likely to be made. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: The review has also recommended two boards – one focused on monetary policy, the other with some industry leaders. In past years the workers, the trade union movement has had a place. Should they have a seat at the table again? 

ED HUSIC: I think – well, we’re very keen to be able to draw on people’s views from all corners of the community. And I certainly look at it from my perspective as a minister; I’m very careful about, if you don’t mind, instructing other ministers via media as to what positions they should take. But I think as a government I can give you this assurance: we do like to take into account people’s views from different vantage points. 

I do think it is important that where decisions have an impact not just in terms of investors or industry but the people that work in them or the broader community, I think it’s a healthier decision where you’ve got that type of balance in. I certainly do it, I try as much as I can from my own portfolio perspective, and it’s good elsewhere. 

Some people will fix on, “Well, someone should have a seat at the board for that to occur,” and I understand why they’ll make those arguments. I’m not necessarily convinced that specifically guarantees that that will occur, just having one person on the board. There need to be a lot deeper structures I think for people to have a sense that they’ve had a say and that they can have an ability to influence and inform decision-making. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Just on your announcement, this is a new pilot program between the CSIRO and CoreLogic Australia, how many people will be able to see how energy efficient their home is? 

ED HUSIC: I think the big thing is that we’ve got about nearly 12 per cent of the country’s emissions are as a result of what happens in our homes. And there are about 10 million residential dwellings in the country, and we haven’t had data that can be – particularly for the banking and finance sector that they can see how energy efficient homes are. 

And we are doing a lot of work as a government to try and improve that efficiency, and chair the building ministers meeting that sets future building codes for new homes. But to be able to use artificial intelligence from the CSIRO working with firms like CoreLogic to be able to crunch the numbers and inform, you know, ways in which to build much cheaper products potentially for people is a really big deal. So being able to have that set up for the first time is a terrific initiative and it is something that I think will be important in trying to bring down emissions. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Will this be accompanied – you just mentioned your chairing of this body. Will it be accompanied with better regulations to make all new homes efficient or at the highest possible rating? 

ED HUSIC: So we work with the States and Territories. This sort of comes together through bringing all those levels of government together to think about future building standards. So, for instance, in our August meeting we suggested that new homes into the future, that they get double glazing, which we are well behind the world in having that type of product available that can keep homes cooler and warmer as required. These things have been held off for ages. They haven’t been done under the previous government, but they’re really important in terms of improving the efficiency of homes. 

And people get it, right? Like, we’ve got one of the biggest uptakes of solar energy generation on Australian roofs compared to other countries. People want to do the right thing for the planet, but they also know that there’s an economic incentive, and we’ve got to keep putting those incentives in. But if we can improve the standards along the way and lift the star standards as well, which we’ve done, that’s a really important step – it signals people will take more into account. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Of course, this is just a pilot, so it means it’s small. 

ED HUSIC: Yeah. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: What’s the idea about rolling that out to a whole lot of Australians? 

ED HUSIC: Well, we want to be able to see how the pilot performs. There’ll be some things that will work well and some that, you know, originally the estimate was it operate in a particular way and it didn’t just pan out. So I think it’s good to be able to have something like that. So we’ll make a decision in due course. 

But I think it is – the good thing is that we’re getting our national science agency working with the finance sector to think of really novel ways to make a meaningful difference in improving energy efficiency but also potentially be able to support that particularly through financial products, which doesn’t sound really interesting to a lot of people, and I get it. But for a lot of people that are motivated in taking every step they can to improve the energy efficiency of their homes and if they can get a better deal on banking products as a result of it, I think a lot of people will welcome that. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: I just want to move to another issue, if we can. The budget, of course, is just two and a half weeks away. There have been a number of different measures raised, like the petroleum resource rent tax, but this morning the sector is pushing back and pushing back big time, forecasting that its companies will deliver a windfall $16 billion in taxes excises and royalties by the end of the financial year. They say that’s more than double last year’s amount. Is that enough? 

ED HUSIC: Well, I think the sector is talking also about the fact – let me put it to you this way: at various points in time the sector doesn’t like highlighting how much its profits are – or how much profit it is benefitting from. Only at the point at which they want to make another point to reduce tax exposure this gets raised. And my issue in the previous 12 months when we’ve been speaking has been around the fact that they are doing very well, that they tend to price in a much more moderated way and that that is one of the biggest things that people are expecting either business or households to see occur with an Australian resource. 

So, you know, the suggestions that you’ll get, you know, that if we make certain moves – and the Treasurer’s, you know, considering all this stuff and this is work that’s being built on that was undertaken or started under the Coalition, the Treasurer will consider that, so no firm decision has been made. But it is a bit – it is a bit rich for a lot of these firms to say, “Well, if you make any move here, regulatory uncertainty will force us not to invest at a time where gas prices where they’re at,” I will leave that to your good listeners to make their minds up as to whether or not that’s believable. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Well, earlier this week Woodside CEO Meg O’Neil addressed the press club. She said your government’s energy market interventions have created genuine concern among customers and governments, particularly in Asia. This isn’t the first such warning. Are we driving away foreign investors? 

ED HUSIC: I don’t think that that is a genuinely – like, they can put the argument forward. Whether it’s sustainable is another question altogether. I think we are also required not just to take into consideration – and we’ve said from the Prime Minister down, everyone has said we recognise the value of the contracts that we have set with international partners. Not under – not any issue whatsoever, we’ll honour the contracts. But we’ll also honour an expectation by the Australian public that an Australian resource will be priced at Australian expectation. 

You know, if we get our needs met, Patricia, in terms of what’s needed for business and households, they can go off, these companies, and they can price whatever they want to for the international market. But we are not paying international prices for an Australian resource. And we’ve been saying that consistently. And for them to then come back and say that this is something that customers are concerned about, again, I think that position I’ve outlined, I think a lot of people, you know, I would humbly say probably share a similar view. 

And as for uncertainty at a time where they are going to – are they seriously going to go back to their shareholders and say to those shareholders, “Well, we’re not going to extract gas out of the ground because we’re concerned about regulation”? I just don’t think that’s really a sustainable argument. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Just a question about the budget – and I know you’re not, you know, the Treasurer so before you even say that to me, I’m just – you know, I’m aware of it. You’re the Industry Minister. You are a cabinet minister, though. Teal MP Zoe Daniel has put out what is basically a big survey to figure out what her constituents think on the income tax package, on the stage 3 tax cuts. And she says the majority of her electorate wants stage 3 tax cuts reconsidered. Now, I think it’s fairly interesting given it’s a really affluent part of the community that would be quite impacted by the stage 3 tax cuts being delivered. Is that persuasive to you to try and have a relook at this? 

ED HUSIC: So on that point, I totally understand it, and it’s good – obviously parliamentarians need to ask – and I think it’s a good thing, you know, you asking people what their views are in local communities. Totally get it. You know, people can talk about – and I understand why they’ll want to raise those issues, but we took a commitment to the election, and I’m a firm believer we’ve made the decision and we’ve expressed our position on that. I think it’s something that we take very seriously that if we’ve said one thing at election we’re going to make sure that we honour, and I just don’t think despite the fact that you’ve attempted to deny me the ability to rely on this, you know, again, I’m not the Treasurer – 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Could it be useful? Could it be useful, Industry Minister Ed Husic, to put out surveys in all of your communities to try and figure out how people are feeling given that there has been – yes, you’re right, there was a commitment. There’s been clearly a shift in the budget, in the times. Is this sort of a strategy that could be pursued by all MPs? 

ED HUSIC: Look, it’s up to MPs how they do that, right? But I think if I go to the heart of your question, Patricia, I think, you know, you do recognise, a lot of listeners would recognise, you can’t have political parties go to an election, take a position and then coming out of that then take steps to try and dilute or move away from that. You know, people have been criticised for that in times past. Parties have been criticised for that in times past. And I’d be very careful of engaging in that kind of behaviour. 

I mean, clearly, as a cabinet minister, you appreciate I do have limitations, but I do take on board the point and we’ve been working very hard as a government, and we’ve been very proud of all the things that we said we’d take to the election that we would do. We’ve been working hard on delivering those things and particularly in terms of things that have helped ease people’s cost of living. We’ve been able to do that, and so I think it’s a point of pride for the government that the things we said we’d do, we actually do, and I’m very careful about entertaining suggestions that we dilute positions that we clearly had taken pre-election. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Ed Husic, many thanks for joining us this morning. Have a great weekend. 

ED HUSIC: Thank you. You, too. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Industry and Science Minister Ed Husic, and you’re listening to ABC RN Breakfast.

ENDS