GREG JENNETT: Now, not every minister in the Albanese government needs to wait for the budget in May before getting out and spruiking big ticket funds that they have available at their disposal. Industry and Sciences Minister Ed Husic already has parliamentary approval to establish the government’s $15 billion National Reconstruction Fund for manufacturing. He’s been out in Brisbane talking about that and other things. Ed Husic joined us from there.

Ed Husic, welcome back to Afternoon Briefing. You’re out and about in Brisbane primarily, I think, talking to unis and research institutions about Australia’s potential for quantum computing, and yet anyone who’s looked at the history of these things knows that Australia’s kind of got a poor record in commercialisation, even if it’s ahead in the early days with some of these technologies. Why will quantum computing be any different? How will we capture those opportunities?

ED HUSIC, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SCIENCE: Greg, I think you’re right – our track record has not been something to boast about because we’ve started in a promising way but never translated that into an enduring benefit. The Albanese government has been elected on the basis that one of our big platforms was to revitalise manufacturing to be able to lever off our know-how to have a lasting impact in terms of the economy, jobs, quality of life. And so being able to invest in some of these leading edge technologies, particularly quantum – not just computing but there are other technologies under that umbrella – will be really important for us to maintain our position so far as a recognised global leader. And so today we did announce backing of some new quantum laboratories at the University of Queensland. We’re also funding more PhDs, and we’re taking a broader national approach on the development of the people side, because that’s really what’s going to drive the development of technology, is the skills of our people. And having a sense that this is really important as a national priority, backing it in with capital like the National Reconstruction Fund – these are concrete measures to drive not just growth now but well into the future.

GREG JENNETT: And what do you say the job opportunities will be over the next few decades?

ED HUSIC: Well, the CSIRO did some work on quantum technologies and reckons between now and 2040 roughly; there’s about 6 billion and close to 17,000 jobs. But that is a very conservative estimate. There are a lot more things, investments, that we think can support growth. For example, out of the National Reconstruction Fund, $1 billion dedicated to critical technologies, which, we’re hoping, will mean that firms don’t feel like they have to leave Australia to get the support they need to grow business and jobs on shore in Australia.

GREG JENNETT: But if they are commercially attractive propositions that they’re developing there why do they need a leg up from the government through the National Reconstruction Fund? If they really are at the cutting edge and commercially viable, they’d stand on their own two feet, wouldn’t they?

ED HUSIC: So there are a number of things. I mean the National – the $15 billion that we’re going to put as an investment into the National Reconstruction Fund in terms of loans, guarantees, equity, is coming at a time where it’s really hard to get those investment dollars. The costs of capital most people will tell you is going up. And what we need is to be able to have that capital available for firms to grow. So to your point, you know, they might be attractive propositions, but they’re competing in a smaller pool of capital where people are withdrawing. In venture capital terms, it’s harder to get that investment support. So it’s really critical right now for the reconstruction fund, the National Reconstruction Fund, to be available. And in some cases, it’s not just the capital; it’s the investors, the knowledge of the investors, behind some of the complicated technical elements of what they’re backing. And having government send signals that despite that complexity this is really important for the nation, that the government’s backing it, we’re investing in the skills and the people, the uni, the research, the translation and we need business to come on board and get the application right as well – all those ingredients, Greg, really important to overcome some of those hurdles you asked me in the question.

GREG JENNETT: All right. Well, is Australia selectively pulling up the investment drawbridge on some future technologies? That’s a preamble to a question about your colleague, Resources Minister Madeline King, who’s given a speech today about the development of minerals industries, lithium would be but one example, where she refers to like-minded foreign investors wanting to be attracted to partner Australia, widely interpreted, Ed Husic, as shunning Chinese investment in these areas. Is that something you’re going to be mindful of as you look for investment partners through the NRF?

ED HUSIC: Well, I mean, what we’re trying to do is obviously build up as much capability on our own terms as we can. Where we can as an open economy work with countries or companies from other countries, we’ll certainly do so. For example, like-minded countries would include the US where they’re making a massive investment through the Inflation Reduction Act in being able to encourage the uptake, the development of low emissions technology, manufacture as much as they can onshore and see us have that huge transition in terms of electrification. So there’s a lot of work that needs to be done, and there are partners there that are saying that they do want to work with countries like that. So I take that on board. But, the big thing for me is that there’s a huge opportunity for electrification. We’ve got to electrify as much as we can in our residences, in commercial and industrial application. And energy storage systems – batteries, the development of them – we are actively looking at if we mine all these critical minerals and rare earths, can we make it here? And that’s what our National Battery Strategy is all about and what we’re working on. And if we can get a lot of that value chain worked out here, there’s a huge benefit in terms of jobs – up to 61,000 jobs – that might be generated by getting our act together on the battery value chain in Australia.

GREG JENNETT: Sure, but the whole point of that will be, isn’t it, that it is to the exclusion of China in order to, you know, diversify Australia’s supply chains or, in fact, its own ability to manufacture here. By definition, it is to the exclusion of Chinese investors, isn’t it?

ED HUSIC: Well, I think through the course of the pandemic we discovered that our dependence on concentrated or broken supply chains presented an issue for the nation. And being able to build up sovereign capability in key areas, the National Reconstruction Fund is a big plank towards building sovereign capability across the priority areas of the National Reconstruction Fund. We’ve kind of flagged we can’t just have a dependency on one or two nations for the bulk of our products. We’ve got to spread that activity out. So we’ve been quite upfront about that for quite some time. A number of nations are reconsidering how their dependencies are affecting the operation of their economy and their communities, and they’re working and dealing with that, and we’re one amongst many that are contemplating that in a very active sense.

GREG JENNETT: All right. And you’re prepared to advocate that openly at a time that you’ve got other colleagues like Trade Minister Don Farrell trying to, you know, forge renewed trade ties with Beijing?

ED HUSIC: I don’t think what I’m saying or what Don is saying is any different. I mean, we are building our relationship – we’re obviously repairing the relationship that had been put under strain by some of the cheap politicking of Coalition backbenchers in times past. We need to be able to deal with difference in a mature way and doing it in a diplomatic way while still standing up for our national values and interests. But at the same time, too, there is a priority that we have said a number of times in terms of building sovereign capability, reducing dependence on those supply chains and seeing how we can value-add as much as we can on Australian soil. And the whole story around batteries is just one example – a very critical example – of us not just mining everything and shipping it off but trying to maximise the value of that resource for the benefit of the country, not just now but for generations to come.

GREG JENNETT: Yeah, sure, point taken – competitive industries, all of those, as well as quantum, I suppose. Ed Husic, no doubt we’ll be talking to you about this and more again before too long. Thanks for joining us from Brisbane there.

ED HUSIC: I hope so. I hope so. Thank you.