PETER STEFANOVIC: Let's go to Canberra now. Joining us live is the Industry and Science Minister Ed Husic. Minister, good to see you. So don't clam up here like Richard Marles did this morning on AUKUS and pivot to next week's official announcement, but I'll try anyway. Peter Malinauskas is still seeking assurance that the ironclad commitment is still there that the subs will be built in Australia. Can you give that assurance?

ED HUSIC, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SCIENCE: You know, you wanted me to open up and I would love to make a whole series of career limiting moves and give you details. Ain't happening. I think the PM has flagged, as you have broadcast here on Sky News, that a lot more of these details will become clearer next week. But what is obvious here is any government has to take national security and defence very seriously. It's the starting threshold issue that needs to be dealt with. We recognise that defence capability isn't just about the here and now, it's about what we need longer term, taking into account what's happening in the world today. 

I heard the comments from Arthur Sinodinos, who's done an important job for the nation as our ambassador there in Washington. And Arthur Sinodinos made the point this is about being able to signal the seriousness of the country to maintain its defence and have some offence capability. And given that the deal struck by another government we now have stewardship for, we take very seriously and working with partners like the US and the UK to deliver that type of technology. But also, to the heart of your question around industry capability onshore, it is something I think a lot about.

There's an expectation, clearly, that we've got a lot of great talent, a lot of great firms that can contribute. We want to make sure that they get a slice of the action. And again, more of this will be discussed in the coming weeks.

PETER STEFANOVIC: Okay. The National Reconstruction Fund hangs in the balance and runs the risk of being blocked. Have you got the votes that you need, Ed?

ED HUSIC: I'm not in a position to say that if I can be absolutely open and direct with you. Obviously, we secured a major milestone yesterday, getting our $15 billion National Reconstruction Fund supported by the House of Representatives. A lot of people in the House of Representatives get this is a massive investment in manufacturing capabilities for this country. It's a moment of nation building. The only people that didn't get it and voted against manufacturing, and blue-collar workers in particular, were the Coalition. The Liberal and National parties, for some reason, decided to not back that investment in manufacturing. We take it now to the Senate. We’ve got to work through a cross bench. 

Clearly, with the Greens on board, it makes our job a lot easier. But I don't take the view that we just get the bare minimum of numbers and then dust the hands and move on. As I said, this is nation building. This is about ensuring that we get up off the mat. We've got some of the worst manufacturing self-sufficiency stats in the OECD, Pete. We've got a big job to do. I want people across the Parliament to feel they got a sense of ownership in the fund, that they know this is something that will build something good for the country longer term, and we want to be able to take people's views on board.

PETER STEFANOVIC: Okay, so will you give in to Jacqui Lambie or honour your agreement with the Greens?

ED HUSIC: My view is you wanted the deal, you can't go and chop and change. And with respect to Jacqui and to Tammy, if I may say, I get where they're coming from. But to give them the assurance, similar to what I said to the Greens, I'm utterly consistent. This fund is about value add. The Prime Minister wants us to do more value add in this country and build great jobs in manufacturing as a result. 

Our intent is not to fund, through a manufacturing fund, the extraction of coal or its transmission or logging of forest. That's not what this fund does. This is about value add. And so for us, we've been absolutely consistent on that. If the Greens needed that assurance in writing, we were prepared to give it. But it doesn't mean the end of logging. If states and territories allow that to occur, that will still continue. Coal and gas has still got a big role to play in the foreseeable future as we look to net zero. So, we just work through this stuff practically. I don't get too worked up about it.

PETER STEFANOVIC: Okay, but Japan paper giant Nippon, it's going to close Australia's last white paper plant. Will the NRF save those jobs?

ED HUSIC: It depends on what Nippon puts forward. If they've got a new process to do what they do in terms of manufacturing, then when the NRF gets stood up and is up and running, they can come forward with a business plan about what they want to do. And we want to coinvest with industry, with superannuation and other players to make that pool of capital available so people can stay. And particularly Australians, Pete. You've heard the stories from time to time where firms leave our country because they felt like they didn't have the support they needed from investors to turn something into reality. But they've been able to get it from other investors offshore or even other governments. And I think we can do a lot better. Australians know we can do a lot better. And having the capital, the growth capital available for manufacturing onshore is a big deal, and we want that to work across the seven priority areas we've announced.

PETER STEFANOVIC: Okay, back to the Senate. There's a fight emerging between the Greens and Lydia Thorpe. Do you have her on side?

ED HUSIC: Again, we're working through with the individual crossbenchers. They will make their announcements on their position. I will not make it for them. But I remain committed to working with people, taking on board views. We're not going to agree with everything, but they can rest assured that one, we're here to listen here, to work with people where we can. And if we make a deal, we honour deals.

PETER STEFANOVIC: So how many chats have you had with her? Or is her vote a given?

ED HUSIC: No, it's not a given. I don't take that with anyone. And we will be meeting in the coming week. And I've had meetings, for example, with Jacqui and with Tammy as well, in the last 24 hours. We'll have meetings with others as well, in due course. We’ve got to get through and work through things but I'm very confident that those meetings will happen. And I'm also confident constructive dialogue will occur and remain hopeful that we'll get this through the Senate.

PETER STEFANOVIC: All right, Ed Husic. Appreciate your time. 

ENDS