DEBORAH KNIGHT: Yes, because he’s with us – the Minister for Industry and Science Ed Husic, taking over from Joel Fitzgibbon, along with member for Hume and possibly shadow treasurer Angus Taylor. Fellas, welcome to you both.

ANGUS TAYLOR: G’day, Deb. Thanks for having me.

ED HUSIC: I might be biased – I like that new intro.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Do you like that, Ed? We got you in full flight.

ED HUSIC: Yeah, I think I might be biased, but I think that’s a quality intro.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Very good. Very good. Well, we’ll see how you guys perform when the new parliament sits, and we might well update it. I wanted to ask too – congratulations, first up, Ed, on being appointed Minister for Industry and Science.

ED HUSIC: Thanks very much.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: And I spotted at the swearing in you had a pink Koran that you used during the service. What was the significance of that?

ED HUSIC: Well, it was gifted to me by a tremendous person who’s done a lot of work in the community particularly in western Sydney, Maha Abdo, who also was recognised by an order of Australia for all the stuff that she’s done to help people in need and vulnerable situations. And I just wanted to – when she gifted me that, to put a spotlight on her work as well to demonstrate that a lot of people, Muslim Australians across the country, that just work in their own way to try and help make communities a better place to live in and help people deal with some of the tough chapters of their lives. And she’s just a – I just have a huge respect and regard for her. So I wanted to share that moment with her and others.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Yeah, it’s a nice touch. And I know that – well, with you and with Anne Aly, the first two Muslim ministers to be sworn in to government – and I didn’t realise that many young Muslim girls and women do have pink Korans.

ED HUSIC: Yeah.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: So it was a lovely moment to see being played out. Now, Angus –

ED HUSIC: Well, when she said to me –

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Sorry. Yes, go ahead.

ED HUSIC: No, know to Angus. I was just going to say, when she said it was pink, I was like, “Oh, okay, this could be making a statement.” And she showed me on – she SMSed me a photo and I was like, “Yeah, that’s not so bad.” And then when I saw it in real life, it was like, “Okay, that’s pretty colourful. It will definitely get attention.”

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Yeah, it was colourful. Well, it was good. And Tony Burke’s big bible also, which is a size of a small house had family significance. So it’s always a lovely moment to see the families at the swearing in, too.

ED HUSIC: Mmm-hmm.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: And, Angus, have you got the shadow treasurer plaque ready to go over your new office?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Can I just start, Deb, by congratulating Ed. I think what he just talked about what is a fitting tribute not only to the community he represents but also to his faith. So good on him. Look, that’s a matter for Peter Dutton. He’ll outline the shadow cabinet –

DEBORAH KNIGHT: But you’re keen obviously.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, I’m keen to get back focused on those really core Liberal values, to represent those forgotten Australians that Peter talked about when he took on the opposition leader role and make sure that we really stand up for those small business people, the hard-working families in our suburbs and our regions that are just the backbone of this country. So that’s what I want to do, Deb. I’d like to think that that’s who I’ve always fought for, but I think in opposition it’s going to be particularly important we really remember who we’re representing, who the backbone of this country is and what it is we’ve got to fight for.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: And when should we hear who the lineup is? Because the opposition leader Peter Dutton had said he’d hoped to have it sorted by now, the new shadow ministry?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yeah, look, he’s working through all of that. Obviously we’ve got a new leader in the National Party and deputy leader in the National Party, and congratulations to them as well, of course. And just working through those issues, and I’m sure it will happen in good time. But there’ll be no shortage of time to prosecute the case for those forgotten Australians that will be our real focus.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Yeah, well, there’s a lot of issues on the plate, not to mention the biggest at the moment – the skyrocketing cost of energy. We are facing an energy and gas crisis in the country at the moment. Families are really struggling to pay their bills. We’ve got businesses, particularly in manufacturing, looking at shedding jobs because they just can’t afford the massive price rises. Ed, you’re in government now. How are you going to fix it?

ED HUSIC: Well, that’s the thing – I’ve been talking, listening with manufacturers who rely on affordable, accessible gas for quite some time. They’ve been worried about where this – the direction of all this and where it was going to be headed. And they are concerned about that. But there’s also a number of other things that they’re dealing with – you know, supply chain constraints and the fact that they’re finding it really hard to get people to do the work for them. So they’ve got all these pressures they need to deal with. We’ve said that we want to keep all options on the table to try and deal with this issue as soon as we possibly can. But, bear in mind, too, we’ve had this – we’ve just come in. We’ve had – it would have been great – well, let me put it this way: while we certainly recognise there were challenges that confronted the Coalition, you know, for example, you can’t really be too tough on them about the fact that if there’s coal-fired generation shortages or there are international factors like what’s happening with the Ukraine et cetera, that’s going to have an impact on energy generally, so totally get that. But, you know, they had nine years, 22 energy policies –

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Yeah, but Labor’s been pushing for reduced coal production. And we need to ramp it up at the moment.

ED HUSIC: No we haven’t. No we haven’t. We haven’t been pushing that. What we’ve been pushing for is increased renewable generation and if that occurs then obviously that changes the mix. We’ve always said we recognise that there’s a role for coal to play absolutely in the short to medium term. But if we can find smarter, more efficient ways to generate energy, we will. But having said that, you know, we’ve got a situation now this government – sorry, this government is having to deal with stuff that the Coalition would have known was on the radar and didn’t deal with.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Will you pull the trigger on stepping in to ensure supplies domestically and to stop them from being exported?

ED HUSIC: So, as I said a few moments ago, we’re keeping the options on the table. Now, Angus did say last week – and we are looking at, you know, in terms of some of the mechanisms that they had put in place – one of the things that stands out is the fact that there is a very long runway for that to take effect. Up until January is when – the quickest you could give effect to that. Now what we would need to consider is how can we do stuff sooner, because we’re not going to have people wait till January with all the problems that you outlined in putting that point to me, be it residential or be it industrial users. And bear in mind, industrial users make up half of domestic gas demand in this country, and they’ve had to cop those increasing costs and inputs for manufacturers more broadly. So that stuff’s going to have to be dealt with very quickly.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Well, it does. And I know that there is a meeting planned next week. But the Australian Energy Market Operator has just released a statement saying that strong gas flows from Queensland and reduced demand are bolstering supplies to south eastern – the southern states, south eastern states, and it also meant that the gas supply guarantee could be deactivated on Thursday afternoon. So that statement’s just come in from the Australian Energy Market Operator.

ED HUSIC: Mmm.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: But, Angus, you’ve been spruiking a gas-led recovery for years now, but it looks like we’re now not seeing the benefits from that. Surely some of the blame for this falls directly at your feet?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Except that we kept the price well below the international price until the election came around. And that’s not a coincidence. Look, Labor’s new Energy Minister Chris Bowen labelled our focus on gas as a fraud and BS – they’re quotes – a fraud and BS. And now he’s got to deal with the real world, real manufacturers, real customers, and he’s got to give us a solution. Now, he’s refusing to pull the trigger, but he can’t tell you what he will do. And I tell you the most extraordinary thing here – he told us yesterday he hasn’t even personally picked up the phone to the chief executives of the big gas companies. Now, they want to know that the government is supporting them to get more supply out, and it’s uncanny how they were able to find more supply when you are on their side in getting more supply out. And that means approvals like Narrabri, which is an approval we worked with the New South Wales government on. Now, he has to pick up the phone. It’s that simple. He hasn’t even done it.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Yeah, that’s a glaring failure to do that, Ed, surely?

ANGUS TAYLOR: A hot tip for him – a hot tip for him – pick up the phone and talk to the people who can get more supply into the network. He told us yesterday he hadn’t even done that.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Ed? Surely that’s the first thing you’ve got to do?

ED HUSIC: So between yesterday and you, Deb, reporting on the fact that the regulator’s announced that more supply is coming in, I imagine there’s been some work happening. I haven’t seen that statement, mind you, and I’ll be quite upfront about that with you.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Mmm.

ED HUSIC: But I do know that Chris has been active on this case. And the fact that you’re even reporting on the fact that more supply is flowing through I think – we can let that speak for itself, can’t we?

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Well, we need to see it actually translate to lower prices.

ED HUSIC: True.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Because –

ED HUSIC: Yeah, yeah.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: The proof will be in the pudding, and we definitely need action on this score. Now, the other issue that we need some serious action on is the worker shortage in Australia. And today we’re told that there’s a huge backlog of skilled workers who can’t get in because of the slow visa processing times. Surely, Ed, these processes can be sped up?

ED HUSIC: Agreed. And it will be interesting to see if the Coalition tries to blame us for that, too, given that those backlogs have been creeping up under their watch. But I agree with you – they need to – like, I’ve been talking with industry and business for quite some time, not just as a shadow minister but well before then as well. Skills shortages in some of our key sectors that support businesses across industry, it’s been an issue for some time trying to find people. We’ve certainly put on the board that we want to be investing more in skills locally, to be able to train people up, Australians up, to meet the needs of business and industry. But we are going to have to supplement that with people coming in from overseas. And we’ve also flagged that if we do that in terms of skilled migration, that there is a permanent migration pathway, too, that they’re not just – we’re not just having a sort of temporary guest worker system set up. We want to be able to have committed – committed people with the skills that are needed to commit to business and the country, too. And, you know, I’m actually proof that that works given that my dad came in as a skilled welder in the late 60s into this country to participate in big nation-building projects. So that is really important for us to achieve. But to do it in a way, as well, that we’ve got the balance right, that people locally can be able to get the work that is secure, meets their needs and is paying them at a rate that can help them pay the bills but also that business has the skills there so that they’re not put under pressure and are going against the wall.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: And is that something, Angus, that the opposition will support?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yeah, very much so. Look, getting the balance right here between skilled migration and making sure we’ve got the home-grown skills, you’ve got to get that balance right. I’m a big supporter of skilled migration. I grew up in Cooma, which is one of the great skilled migrant towns of Australia. But we do have to make sure we’ve got everyone on deck in Australia to meet some of these skill shortages. There’s companies that have imposed – and states, indeed, that are imposing I think what are now redundant Covid-type restrictions that are stopping people getting into work or into the right work. And that needs to be dealt with as quickly as possible so we’ve got to make the absolute best use of our own resources. But skilled migration will remain an important part of the mix.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Look at that – consensus in Question Time. I love it.

ED HUSIC: Well, Deb, I was going to make that point. I was going to make that point, and I welcome what Angus said, because I think these are the things that Australian business do want to see. And I think the broader electorate wants to see the big parties being able to put the political sword down and work in common interest. I reckon this is a big one because I think – and I’m not going to put words in Angus’s mouth, but it is something that I’m concerned that businesses are under huge pressure at the moment for a range of different factors. And we don’t want to see them shutting shop because they can’t find the people to get the work done and that, you know, it flows through to the higher inflationary outcomes. We’ve got to be able to find a way to make that – get that stuff sorted out.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: And a quick one to finish – we’re going to be talking cheese in Friday Food later in the show. There’s a Bon Fromage cheese festival happening in Sydney this weekend. What’s your favourite cheese, and why? Angus?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Look, I love my cheese. I worked for many years with the dairy industry, and I love cheese. But I think you can’t go past a good vintage cheddar. I think it’s simple but it’s great flavour. I love it.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Crumbly, love it. That’s good. What about you, Ed?

ED HUSIC: Blessed be the cheesemakers, first. Second, well, I mean I did a range. It’s very hard for me. When I was growing up my old man used to love and he worked with a lot of Italians – mozzarella. But I have to say I’m a big fan of cheddar as well. But a good Australian-made blue is, you know – just hits the mark.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Yeah, well, we’ll be smelling it at the studio with some blue cheese a little bit later on.

ED HUSIC: Good.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: So we’ll talk in for both of you. Fellas, thanks for joining us.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks, Deb.

ED HUSIC: Cheers.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Ed Husic and Angus Taylor joining us for our weekly dose of Friday Question Time.

ENDS