DEBORAH KNIGHT: With us, as they are every Friday, the Energy Minister Angus Taylor and Member for the Hunter Joel Fitzgibbon. Fellas, thanks for joining us. A lot of news to digest today with COVID and with the situation in New South Wales and in Queensland, with the flight attendant one of the positive cases and the contact tracers working overtime there. We had the New South Wales Chief Health Officer declaring the situation in Sydney a national emergency, and the Premier, Gladys Berejiklian, wants the Federal Government to refocus the national vaccination strategy. It is urgent, isn't it, Angus, that we've got to really shift things up here in Sydney?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, it is urgent. There is a lot of AstraZeneca vaccine out there. We're now getting a million a week of Pfizer. You know, and actually, there's a lot of vaccine not being used. So people have got to get out there. We've got to get people vaccinated, Deb, I've been consistent about this on this show for a long time - that is the key. You know, we've had lots of debate about advice coming in on all this sort of thing, but the one thing we know, for sure, is that once people have the vaccine, it dramatically reduces the risk and the second dose reduces it further, and that is how we're going to get out of this. So it's crucial, particularly with this Delta variety, that we get people vaccinated as quickly as possible.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: And it's fair enough, isn't it, to have doses redirected from other states at the moment in the midst of what we're facing in New South Wales with Delta?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, there's a lot of vaccine out there already. I went on the HotDocs website - which is a good website by the way, your listeners should have a look at it if they want to know where there's some AstraZeneca vaccination or other vaccinations available - and you know, I was looking around my electorate, there's a lot of, there's a lot of vaccine available, Deb. So, you know, you've got to go looking and that website is a very, very good way to find it near where you live. I encourage people to get out there and get it, because there's lots of it there.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: And Joel, there's growing pressure for ATAGI to change its advice on the AstraZeneca vaccine, and the Prime Minister has been ramping up the pressure, reportedly asking them to do just that. Do you think that's appropriate?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well, I think most of us, Deb, including, I believe, Angus, from the beginning of this pandemic have urged leaders and members of the community to follow the expert medical advice, and that shouldn't change. I think the problem now is that people are seeing our leaders, the Prime Minister in particular, appearing to coerce ATAGI, trying to get them to change their expert opinion.  I know there's an argument about probabilities and balance of risk, but that is for the leaders, the political leaders to make, not, not for our scientists to make. I want our scientists to just give it to us as it is. If our political leaders have to make judgement calls and take a- take slightly more risk, well, so be it. I think that's appropriate. But gee, that was a, that was a terrifying press conference we watched from the New South Wales Premier just now, wasn't it? I mean, she, she looks panicked. Her pronouncements were, I think, deliberately vague. I just don't believe she knows what to do next. She's allowed this thing to get away on her, and now of course, she's trying to push the blame back to Scott Morrison. Gee, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in National Cabinet this afternoon.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Yeah, it's going to be very fiery. We've already got the Victorian Premier, Dan Andrews, ruling out redirecting vaccines from Victoria to New South Wales, because that's what we know she's going to be calling for - for the Pfizer vaccine, in particular, to be made available for more young people and to get it from other states. But we've got Victoria, before they even step into that meeting, saying, no, that's not going to happen. 

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Can I just say, on that, Deb, I mean, this has its origins, this breakout in Bondi, in the Eastern suburbs of Sydney. If Gladys had locked down quickly then and comprehensively, we wouldn't be having this breakout today. So you can understand why Victorians don't want - having suffered so many tough lockdowns themselves, won't want to be giving vaccinations over to New South Wales because their Premier allowed this situation to emerge.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: What's the solution, Angus, here? Because it does seem to be that the strategy of the New South Wales Government is not working. We're seeing more cases, more infections, and more people out and about in the community while infectious, spreading it even further. Do we need to have localised lockdowns of southwest Sydney, because that's where it is running rampant at the moment?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, can I just push back on a little bit of this? So the first thing to say is the idea that none of this is working is, is not right. It is clear, very clear to me that we would have had far more infections if the New South Wales Government hadn't taken the action it has. Now, people are right to say, we'd like to get back to zero - of course we would. I mean there's no question that that is true. But I've got to say, for your listeners, the most important thing they can do is get the vaccines Deb and there's lots of it, you know. And this is the important point.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: And there's no debate there.

ANGUS TAYLOR: No, Deb. The excuses, the excuses for people not to get vaccinated now are running out, they really are.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Absolutely.

ANGUS TAYLOR: This is how we're going to get through this. This is the thing that everyone can do, they can all do their bit. We talk about being in this together, well, this is the answer. Now, you mentioned ATAGI a moment ago - let me just make this comment. You know, when the context changes, well, we've got to respond to that. Now, the context here is we have a far more infectious variety of this virus than we had last year. That's the reality. And that means that the reason for getting vaccinated has gone up; the rationale, the benefit of getting vaccinated has gone up substantially since last year, and this is the point the Prime Minister is making. He is absolutely right, and it's another reason why people should, you know, get on to their local doctor or onto the HotDoc website and have a look at where they can get a vaccine.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: And in light of the fact that it is so contagious and that Delta does change the entire situation we're in, should we just scrap this idea Joel, of zero cases because realistically, how are we going to achieve that?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well, I think we would have been achieving something like that if the New South Wales Premier had acted as soon as the Bondi breakout occurred. I think that's the first point to be made. But we've seen the situation in other nation states. I know there are those who out there say, oh, we just need to live with this thing. Well, I think they'd change their mind pretty quickly when it's their mother or father on their deathbed. We do need to clamp right down on this thing. And again, if we’d had a short, snappy, comprehensive breakdown in Sydney a month or- ago or whenever it was, then we wouldn't be facing any of these challenges. I think we need to remain disciplined. But I do want to agree with Angus and make an appeal to people to get out and get AstraZeneca. You know, the Government gave us too few choices. Let's put that behind us. That's all that's available to them, and the risk of getting sick is a much more challenging one than any risk posed by AstraZeneca. We do need to get people out there to get those two jabs.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Can I just do a plea to both of you, as well, that you won't do what Ray has done and Kyle Sandilands has done? We don't need you guys to be rapping either, alright?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: I think Angus and I together would be sensational.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Please spare us. We're going through enough as it is. I do want to ask about JobKeeper, because this is hitting us $300 million every day with the lockdowns across the country. That's what the Federal Treasurer has said, Josh Frydenberg, yesterday. And with $600 a day in national disaster payments, that's all good and well for lockdowns at last for a short period of time. But if this is going to last, which it looks like it will, for months and months, JobKeeper's got to come back on the table, doesn't it, Angus?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Look, it's the wrong program for the current circumstances. And here's why, Deb. It took four to six weeks to get JobKeeper into place, get it up and running. And we've got localised breakouts. So what we need now is a program that can be turned on and off very, very quickly and can be targeted locally. That's not JobKeeper. So that's why we've done what we've done up to $600 for individuals and then of course, there's the up to $10,000 for business payroll-

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Will you look at upping the amount, then?

ANGUS TAYLOR: We'll keep looking at this thing, obviously. I mean, you know, the one thing we know about this series of events we've had in the last 12 months or longer in every country in the world is you never quite know what's around the corner, Deb. So trying to predict what is going to be required in a week or a month's time is something you got to be cautious with. The one thing we know is we need a program that's very flexible and very targeted. That's what we have here, and we'll continue to monitor the situation.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Now, we've got the Olympics getting underway tonight, the opening ceremony, of course, and Brisbane winning the 2032 games, which is phenomenal. It's going to be great for south-east Queensland, great for the entire country. When we're talking Olympics, though, I want to end by asking you about- if there was an Olympic event that you could dream of competing in, maybe a secret skill that you just didn't apply yourself to from a sporting point of view, that you just thought: I could have made it for the Olympics, what would it be? Joel.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well, a quick shout-out to Daniel Repacholi from my hometown of Cessnock, who's in the shooting tomorrow in Tokyo, so good luck, Daniel. Bring home gold, please. Look, that's an easy one for me, Deb - the 100-metre sprint. I've always been quite obsessive about it. I've watched it since I was a kid. You know, right back to the Carl Lewis days and through the Usain Bolts of the world. 

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Are you any good at running?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well, believe it or not, Deb, you wouldn't know it now, but I was a pretty fast runner. I played wing and fullback in- for the mighty Cessnock Goannas. I'm not going to claim to be at world record speeds, but I was pretty handy. I'd just love to run next to one of those guys one day, just to get an appreciation of just how fast they are. I'm sure that I'd be possibly at the 50-meter line when they're over the 100-metre line.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Yeah, well, sprinting from political enemies is probably a skill you'd need in your line of work. 

JOEL FITZGIBBON: I never run away, Deb.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Yeah. That is true. What about you, Angus?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, Deb, as a kid I always wanted to be a test cricketer, and I failed dismally at that. In my older age, I've taken up what I was reasonably good at as a kid, which is running and cycling, and even managed to represent Australia in triathlon. At the mature age level, never at that Olympic level. But gee, I tell you what, those athletes now are just unbelievable. What I would do to have an opportunity like that. I'm so proud of the Australians over there now and what they're doing in very tough circumstances. Good on them.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Well said. Good on you, fellas. Thanks for joining us.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Thanks, team.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Cheers.

DEBORAH KNIGHT: There they are: Joel Fitzgibbon and Angus Taylor. They join us every Friday for Question Time.

ENDS