NEIL BREEN: The Energy Minister is Angus Taylor, he joins me now. Angus, there's a lot of rules and regulations in different states of Australia. I'm trying to stay on top of it all. It's hard to know if we're Arthur or Martha at the moment on borders.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, it is a bit like that. I just heard you talking about the Queensland rules, and that was all news to me. I'm just struggling to keep across New South Wales and the ACT where I have to go. So, I'm kind of managing, I live an hour between the two, and even that's been a challenge. 

NEIL BREEN: I can imagine. Okay. Net zero emissions. It’s a massive story. What really piqued my interest yesterday was that the situation is a national security issue. The Prime Minister sort of hinted at this, and he spoke about this when he came back from the United States, and then Joe Biden, and we know we got the new Western alliance and everything like that. How is it working in a national security space? Net zero emissions? Because I'm confused. 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, our alliances with the United States, the UK, and others - but of course, they're the ones that are being featured at the moment - are hugely important to the security of the nation. We have to work together with countries like the United States and the UK to make sure that our region is safe. Look, we are facing a more uncertain strategic environment than we faced, certainly, for many years. And, you know, this means that those alliances really matter. Now that means working together on other issues like emissions reduction is important, but we’ll always do it in a way which is right for our regions, our traditional industries. We're not going to hit our exports with policies that are going to hurt them - in fact, quite the opposite - we've got to support them. We have an important, a crucial role to play in our region as one of the biggest energy exporters in the world, the biggest commodity exporters in the world, that we have to provide our customers with a product that they want. Their demands are changing, and we need to change with it. But doing that, and working closely with allies like Japan as well, Korea and through southeast Asia, is crucial to, not just our economic future, but our strategic future as well. 

NEIL BREEN: So those allies like the US and the UK, and others, are they basically saying that, you know, our security alliances and all these things are all tied to alliances with regards to emissions? So we want Australia on board with a net zero by 2050, otherwise we mightn’t be so helpful when there's trouble in the region. There's obviously some ultimatum that’s been given here. 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, no, I think you're overstating the case here. Look, when you look at a country like Japan, it's one of our biggest export at customers. We want to have a strong economic and strategic alliance with Japan. We have it now, and we want to maintain it. Now, what they want in terms of energy is changing, let's be clear. They’re-

NEIL BREEN: Yeah, and the world is changing, is changing quick now.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Exactly. And you know, I learned in business before I went into politics - and sadly, there's not enough people who were in business before they went into politics- 

NEIL BREEN: Yeah. 

ANGUS TAYLOR: That in every business you have to adapt to what your customers want. That is exactly what we're doing. It's why ammonia and hydrogen are such important industries for us. It's why making sure we've got the best, cleanest agricultural product in the world is hugely important to us. And I'm very confident that Australia can adapt to what our customers want. That also has the strategic benefit that our alliance with these countries at the political level remain very strong, and I'm confident they can. 

NEIL BREEN: The Nationals? How are they going? And they stalling?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, no. The Nationals are doing exactly what they should do, and what I do as regional Member of Parliament - like them I’m a regional member, but I’m a Lib - you know, we are making sure that whatever policies we adopt - and we've been doing this for a long time - are in the interests of the regions, are in the interests of those export industries that power our regional areas. Whether its resources or heavy manufacturing or agriculture, you know, these industries are the lifeblood of our regions, and the Nationals are out to make sure that those industries and those regional centres that rely on them are prosperous into the future. And I’ve got to tell you, I'm very sympathetic to that cause.

NEIL BREEN: I want to ask you about this. You're making a big announcement with the Prime Minister today that's really putting the pressure on, or the onus on business to get involved as well. So the way I read it is it's about the government not just going alone, but bringing business with it, developing this Corporate Emissions Reduction Transparency report. Can you explain it to us?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, you know, there's nothing worse, Neil, than virtue signalling without action. You know, there's lots of people out there who talk a big game and then don't act. And we're interested in working with companies and businesses and organisations that have ambition – great, go for it – but much more importantly, that they get on with doing things. That's the Australian way. We don't just talk, we do. And that's what this program is about. It's about saying, look, if companies want to step up and say they're going to do these wonderful things to bring down emissions, great, we encourage it, but get on and show people how you're going to do it. There's no point having a target without a plan. That's what Labor does - they have targets without plans. And that applies as much at the business level, corporate level, as it does, of course, at the political and governmental level.

NEIL BREEN: This is about publicly reporting on progress towards targets. I suppose, in a practical sense, I work for Nine Entertainment Company. It owns radio stations, it owns newspapers, television stations, broadcasting, online. And compare it, what would Channel 9 do to report its emissions? And what would a business like, I don't know, Ultra Tune, which is a chain of car places where they tune your car up - how do they get involved in a practical sense?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, the point we're making here is if they say, look, we're going to reduce our emissions by ‘X’ per cent over the next 10 years, or 20 years, whatever it is, then do what we do as a government. We put out our emissions outcomes every quarter, every gas, every sector. It's transparent. Everyone can see. It’s the most transparent, indeed, in the world. And so companies that talk a big game need to report on it. They need to be transparent. They need to be clear. Now, we're not forcing any company to commit to any target. That's up to them. That’s their choice-

NEIL BREEN: So if they commit to a target, then report it and stick to it?

ANGUS TAYLOR: They need to be transparent. So don't run around saying you're going to do ‘A’ and then go away and do something completely different, and not report it-

NEIL BREEN: Well, News Corp is talking a big game at the moment in their newspapers.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, it's important every company that makes commitments on this be transparent on it. I mean, you know, the contrast is, if you look at the Chinese government, we haven't seen a detailed report on emissions since 2014. I mean, that is a lack of transparency. 

NEIL BREEN: And you won't be seeing one either. We're still waiting for one on Wuhan, aren’t we?

ANGUS TAYLOR: [Laughs] Well-

NEIL BREEN: They’re hard to get out of China.

ANGUS TAYLOR: But you know, a lack of transparency when you make these commitments is a big deal. The Australian way is to say what you're going to do and then do it and be transparent about it. That's what we're doing as a government and we expect others to do the same.

NEIL BREEN: Just finally, will the Prime Minister go ahead with the plan if the Nationals don't agree before Glasgow? Or do the Nationals have to be on board before Glasgow?

ANGUS TAYLOR: At the end of the day, this is a decision of Cabinet. That's how our system of government works. But ultimately, it is incredibly important-

NEIL BREEN: So Cabinet will make the decision?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, yes, but obviously it’s very, very important that we bring along our regional Members of Parliament. 

NEIL BREEN: The Nats?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, it’s broader than the Nats. I mean, regional Members of Parliament live in the areas where the impacts of bad policies will be the worst, and the impacts of good policies will have the biggest positive impact. And that's where we're going: good policies and positive impacts. But it's quite reasonable for every regional Nat or Lib to look carefully at this and make sure that their regions are getting the right policies to ensure that they have a great future. I am very, very confident that we have that plan. But I'm also very conscious of the fact that all of those Members of Parliament need to be given the greatest respect to work through it and come to the right conclusions.

NEIL BREEN: Industry, Energy and Emissions Reduction Minister Angus Taylor, thanks for your time on for 4BC Breakfast.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Good on you. Thanks Neil.

ENDS