LAURA JAYES: Energy Minister, Angus Taylor - good to see you this morning. You've been accused of fibbing about emissions reductions. So what is the truth, Angus Taylor?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well the truth is the latest report has our emissions now coming down - and people want to cherry pick time frames in this debate, Laura - but what really matters is are we going to reach our Kyoto obligations? Are we going to reach our 2030 international obligations? And the answer is a definitive yes to both. We arrived into Government with a 755 million tonne a year deficit to get to our Kyoto obligations. We're now going to over reach, or get a carryover of 367 million tonnes. We've announced in the last week or so how we're going to reach the remaining 328 million tonnes to get to our 2030 obligations, that's 12 years ahead of time, so we're doing extremely well. The question that remains unanswered, Laura, is how is Labor going to reach their target of 1.3 billion tonnes?

KIERAN GILBERT: Well, we'll talk to Labor at a different point and pursue that, but in terms of the cherry picking - because this is what Laura's question goes to - is that you've been accused of cherry picking because it's the last quarter of emissions that you've referred to, whereas over the last five years, emissions have risen year on year. Isn't that accurate?

ANGUS TAYLOR: And I can pick time frames where they've been falling. I mean, look the real question here is-

KIERAN GILBERT: This is the five years you've been in office. Maybe you can explain for our viewers clearly the trajectory and why you think now this downturn is a trend?

ANGUS TAYLOR: The trajectory is that when we arrived into office, we needed to find another 755 million tonnes of abatement in order to reach the Kyoto obligation in 2020, let alone the 2030 obligations. We not only reached it, we now have a 367 million carryover. Now Labor is being very tricky about whether or not it's going to use that carryover. If they don't use it, the implications for the economy will be devastating. You heard it from me first, Labor will use it - because to get to their 2030 target, 45 per cent target, will be economy wrecking if they use the carryover, it will be apocalyptic if they don't use it. This is the real question, and it remains unanswered. We remain very proud of Australia's track record in getting to the Kyoto obligations, whether it's 2010 obligations, 2020, and our progress on Paris for 2030. I'd also say to this that we have the lowest levels of emissions per capita now for 29 years. Everyone likes, there's lots who like to talk down Australia's performance in this area. It's very strong, and that's at a time when we've had in recent years, a very, very strong economy, strong LNG exports and it's an astounding achievement.

LAURA JAYES: Just one quick thing on Paris and meeting those targets in a canter - yes, you're right to point out that Labor will probably use those credits as well - what's it worth in terms of the percentage, making up that 26 to 28 per cent reduction? Is it five per cent of that, is it ten per cent, what is it?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well the carryover is 367 million tonnes. That's the number.

LAURA JAYES: Yes, but what does that translate to in terms of making up that 26 to 28 per cent reduction though?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well there's billions of tonnes in the carbon budget between now and 2030, so it is relatively small in terms of the overall carbon budget, but it makes a very big difference if Labor chooses not to use it. This is why I'm saying Bill Shorten's being tricky about it. They haven't explained how they're going to get to their 45 per cent emission reduction target. We've seen independent modelling-

KIERAN GILBERT: Yeah, we will talk to Labor about it. I promise you we will pursue them on this because it is a very worthwhile question of them - but you're the Government, and you're the one who has committed to using the carryover. What do you say to Climate Minister Shaw from New Zealand who says this is not in the spirit of the Paris agreement, to be using this when other nations, the EU, the UK, and others have said that they're not going to use this carryover?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, I say we have exceeded our Kyoto targets, those other countries mostly haven't. No wonder they don't want us to use them. Look, there is less carbon in the atmosphere because of what Australia's done. New Zealand is going to use international credits to get there because they don't want to go around and reduce their cattle herd. Look, the question though remains is how is Labor going to get to 45 per cent, Kieran? It is the fundamental question. It remains unanswered by them. Independent modelling tells us $9,000 hit to your average earnings of a worker per year, and 336,000 jobs - and that's if they use the carryover, that's if they use the carryover.

LAURA JAYES: Well, just on the carryover-

ANGUS TAYLOR: It will be apocalyptic without it.

LAURA JAYES: Well, why is it apocalyptic for Labor not to use it, but you say when it comes to meeting your commitments, it's a very small part of that 26 to 28, I don't understand?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Right, because if you look at the independent modelling of Labor getting to 45 per cent using the carryover, you get a cut to wages of $9000 a year, you get 336,000 jobs lost. So that is devastating, it's a wrecking ball to the economy. But you get to a point, where getting any more just becomes apocalyptic. It is too hard. You can drive emissions reductions through energy efficiency up to a point. Beyond that then, you just have to start slashing activity. You have to start slashing jobs, and they're mostly export driven energy-intensive jobs that you've got to start slashing. The aluminium sector has got to go, you've got to curb transport, and you've got to curb cattle production - so you've got to hook into those industries, which are the backbone of our export economy.

KIERAN GILBERT: On one of those industries are the big exports recently, as you know and out to 2020, they're projected to grow even further is LNG exports. It's also one of the big drivers of our emissions profile, isn't it?

ANGUS TAYLOR: It is.

KIERAN GILBERT: So is it consistent with reducing, the goal of reducing emissions?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yes - this is very important - this is a sector which is fundamental to the Australian economy. As are all our major export sectors, many of which are energy intensive. But when we sell a gigajoule of gas to China, we reduce global emissions because the alternative is using coal in that country, local coal, which is dirty coal. So we reduce emissions by selling LNG up there. Now there are many people on the Labor side who would like to see these export industries slashed.

KIERAN GILBERT: But if you take responsibility-

ANGUS TAYLOR: They would like to see them slashed, and we're not going to allow that to happen.

KIERAN GILBERT: Is that a risky sort of argument though, because if you're taking responsibility for the LNG exports and the profile of our export emissions, then you'd have to take that upon yourself for the coal exports too?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well that's how it works. That is-

KIERAN GILBERT: But it's not factored in as part of our national emissions is it?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yes.

KIERAN GILBERT: Emissions from your coal exported, used overseas?

ANGUS TAYLOR: No, so the point is that production of fuels, energy, that gets used offshore, any emissions related to that in Australia are counted against us, and yet those export sectors are reducing global emissions. So I think there's a real question about the fairness of that, but it is what it is. The point here though that really matters is are we going to nurture those big export sectors that help us to buy iPhones at reasonable prices, that are fundamental to the strength and prosperity of our economy, or are we going to slash them? To get to 45 per cent you have no choice but to curb those industries, and this is the real issue for the Australian economy.

LAURA JAYES: Minister just if I can return back to where we began, would it have been more accurate to say that total emissions are up over the last five years but they're down in the last quarter? Is that more accurate?

ANGUS TAYLOR: No I'll tell you what's more accurate is to stop cherry picking time periods for a gotcha question. And Laura-

LAURA JAYES: No, but isn't it fair to - it's not a gotcha question, this is genuinely not a gotcha question - but isn't it fair not to cherry pick time periods, but to look at the period of which you've been in office?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, Laura the real question is are we going to reach our international obligations? That's what counts. Now this is about Australia's emissions in the global total - is very small as we all know, just over 1 per cent - so the real question that matters is are we sticking to our international obligations? We've chosen a 26 per cent target, absolutely achievable. We've laid out a clear plan to achieve it. We've achieved our 2010 obligations, we'll achieve our 2020 obligations and we now have a very clear plan to achieve our 2030 obligations. Labor don't have a clear plan.

KIERAN GILBERT: Every time the government says that though - under 1.5 per cent of global emissions - we should remember, shouldn't we Minister, that 40 per cent of global emissions worldwide are made up by nations with emissions profiles similar to ours, so smaller emissions, so it's crucial that every nation does its bit.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Kieran, that's why I say - the issue is I'm agreeing with you - the issue here, then, is are we going to reach our international obligations? That is the fundamental question and the answer is a clear yes. We laid out last week exactly how we're going to do that for 2030. 328 million tonnes - 102 million tonnes from the Climate Solutions Fund, 63 million tonnes from energy efficiency, 25 million tonnes from hydro projects, and so on. We've laid that out very, very clearly. Labor hasn't laid out how they're going to reach their target and we should be very, very worried about that.

LAURA JAYES: Well Minister we'll be talking about this until the cows come home or at least the election. We'll speak to you very soon.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well I hope there's a lot of cows coming home Laura. I hope there's a lot of cows coming home.

[Laughter]

KIERAN GILBERT: With less emissions.

[Laughter]

LAURA JAYES: Minister, thank you.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks.