CHRIS KENNY:  Let's go to the Federal Energy Minister now, Angus Taylor joining us. Good to talk to you, Angus. I wanted to ask you first about this digital announcement today. You used to be in this space as a Minister for Digital Transformation. What is this going to do to help businesses that are becoming increasingly digitised as we speak?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, it's really crucial that we see the efficiency and gains that we can get from digital, and you know, there's some really critical initiatives within this, some of which were initiated when I was Minister, around digital identity. So, in simple terms, that makes it much easier for you to control your own data and move between suppliers, so if you want to switch electricity suppliers, you can do it very quickly and easily. You can compare plans quickly and easily. And these reforms are all about empowering people, empowering customers, empowering businesses by using digital technologies. And switching electricity providers is one example. Switching banks would be another one, Chris, and these are the sorts of initiatives that we think will make the economy more productive, better for consumers. And of course, in my space, being able to switch between energy providers is hugely important.

CHRIS KENNY:  Yeah, now, it's another $800 million though. Is there no-one left in Federal Cabinet who even cares about the size of the deficit?

ANGUS TAYLOR: I care deeply about the size of the deficit and always have done, Chris. Sadly, we're in a situation where we've seen, obviously with COVID, the need to keep the economy ticking over. But it's important we withdraw those initiatives. They were always intended to be temporary, and they've been the bulk of the impact on the budget, obviously. And we do need to withdraw them and we do need to see an opening up of the economy. You've been talking about Victoria, I mean, the most important thing of all is to see those restrictions lifted as quickly as we possibly can, and that's how we're going to get the economy back on track, that's how we're going to get the deficit back on track, and that's how we're going to start bringing the debt back down. There's no other easy answer.

CHRIS KENNY:  Look, a few people would argue that this is not an extraordinary challenge and that some sort of intervention to sustain people through the coronavirus shutdowns was warranted, but it just seems that that's kind of lifted the lid. It's blown this year's budget, it's blown the debt and deficit argument into the future. It seems to me that there's no limits now, that we just spend our way out of this.

ANGUS TAYLOR: No, I don't think that's right. I think we grow our way out of it. That is the answer. We need the economy to grow and an economy growing, as we've seen in the past, if you've got growing jobs, growing economy, growing incomes, then you can get your deficit down and you can get your debt down. We've seen that before in the past. That's what we have to get happening here, Chris. And you know, the digital initiatives you've talked about a moment ago, the reason they're important is not because of government spending, they're important because they actually facilitate the private sector.

CHRIS KENNY:  Yep, yeah.

ANGUS TAYLOR: And that's the answer here, is facilitating the private sector to get back on its feet. You know, ongoing restrictions in Victoria are our biggest issue economically at the moment. Make no mistake about it, we have to see those restrictions lifted. You've just been talking about it. I thoroughly endorse that point of view.

CHRIS KENNY:  Yeah, we're on a unity ticket there. Open up the state borders, open up business opportunities inside this country. But there's one border the Federal Government does directly control, which is also holding back an enormous amount of economic activity and social exchange - that is our international border.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Sure.

CHRIS KENNY:  Now, we know the situation with COVID now, we've got quarantine in place. Why shouldn't we be saying that anybody who wants to leave this country or come to this country under normal tourism, study, even the immigration should be able to do that so long as they fund their own two-week quarantine?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, the states have set limits on their capacity to quarantine. We want those limits to be raised. We've been pushing, working with the states to get them raised and we'll continue to do so, Chris. I mean, it's important. Look, the direction you're describing of opening up our domestic economy, progressively opening up international movement, I mean, it's absolutely right. And that's the only way we're going to get the economy moving. At the end of the day, we forget that we have a federal structure. That is the reality of what we live with. And it's meant we've had to look for ways to influence as a Federal Government, even where we don't have authority. And we've been seeking to do that at every opportunity we can.

CHRIS KENNY:  Maybe there's time for one question about your actual portfolio of energy. [Laughs] Now, quite wisely, you've not signed up to zero net emissions by 2050 and have said no matter what people think about climate change and emissions, it's a joke of an undertaking because no-one's going to be around in 2050 to deliver it. But how do you run the argument - and that's why it's an easy promise for Labor to make, it'll be quite popular with the green left, but Anthony Albanese is certainly never going to deliver on it - but how do you run an argument against it when all your state Liberal governments and state Liberal opposition parties are signing up to that same cheap deal? Zero net emissions by 2050 - it's a cheap promise, isn't it?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well you focus on the things that will make a difference now and strengthen the economy, not hurting it. Look, throughout human history, Chris, it's been technology that has solved our hardest problems. It's been technology breakthroughs that have driven prosperity, that have driven the opportunities that we have today, which are extraordinary even compared to 50 or 100 years ago. And technology will solve these problems. So our focus is on getting the technology outcomes that will strengthen the economy, create jobs and at the same time bring down emissions, and who's going to argue with that? Now that is-

CHRIS KENNY:  Well, that's your focus, and as you know, I don't argue with that. But my point is different. My point is this and that is if Anthony Albanese's net zero by 2050 promise is either pie in the sky or one that if it was delivered would be too damaging to Australia's economy, then the very same criticism has to be made of Gladys Berejiklian's adherence to that objective and Steven Marshall's adherence to that objective. Are those state, two state Liberal governments actually making inane promises on climate and energy policy?

ANGUS TAYLOR: What matters is what you're doing now. I mean, this is why we emphasise this. And look, to put it in perspective-

CHRIS KENNY:  Well what they're doing now is promising net zero by 2050 and they're in government and they're adopting policies aimed at doing that. Are they doing economic harm to the country?

ANGUS TAYLOR: But they're not accountable. They're not accountable, Chris. The international agreements are entered into by the Federal Government. That's how it works. And we're accountable for those. And so we do them in a sensible way which focuses on what we can do here and now. Now, you talked about Anthony Albanese's position there a moment ago. Yeah, he's prepared to commit to a 2050 target, but he's got no 2030 target because they set a ridiculous 2030 target before the last election, which would've involved slashing over 300,000 jobs, almost $9,000 in the average income and a huge swathe out of the economy and industries and regions. So, the way to deflect away from their real intent, which is to hurt the economy by imposing what's effectively a carbon tax in the short term, is to focus their policy on the long term. And as I say, what really matters here is what you're doing here and now, whether you're federal or state, and our focus is on sensible things to strengthen the economy and create jobs and won't raise the cost of energy for average Australians, but at the same time will deliver a good economic outcome and a reduction in emissions.

CHRIS KENNY:  Speaking of emissions, you're on a bit of a unity ticket with Clover Moore at the moment and Tony Abbott and others. You're off on the Pollie Pedal cycling. Who are you raising money for this year?

ANGUS TAYLOR: We're raising money for SoldierOn, Chris, which is a fantastic organisation that supports veterans who have left the services, and there's real challenges as people leave the services. One of the things they can do, by the way, is get out and exercise. It's always great for mental health so it's a good fit for Pollie Pedal with SoldierOn. But this year, we also dropped into 10 different Rural Fire Service brigades, units, sheds across southern New South Wales where those fires went through over the Christmas, and we thank them for what they've done. When coronavirus hit soon after the fires, we didn't get the opportunity to thank these extraordinary people - many of whom were in my electorate - for the work they did to save property and more importantly save lives. And we took the opportunity to visit 10 really active units around the southern New South Wales area and thank them for the extraordinary work they did. So, fantastic, right? We had to do it with a smaller group this year because of the restrictions, but we've raised, Pollie Pedal has raised $7 million now, Chris, for a range of causes. SoldierOn right now. We gave money also to those Rural Fire Service units. It's an extraordinary institution and it's a privilege to be part of it.

CHRIS KENNY:  Great stuff. I was down in the Southern Highlands on the weekend myself. It's looking nice and green - you have had some good rains.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Sure is, yeah.

CHRIS KENNY:  Wonderful stuff. Angus Taylor, thanks for joining us.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks Chris.

ENDS