DEB KNIGHT: Joining us as they do every Friday, Angus Taylor, Minister for Energy and Emissions Reduction, and Joel Fitzgibbon, the Opposition spokesperson for Agriculture and Resources. Fellas, thanks so much for joining us. I want to talk first up borders. Obviously, we’ve had this announcement from the Premier, Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk on the eve of the election. Angus, it’s disappointing for many including the tourism sector.

ANGUS TAYLOR: It sure is, Deb. You know, we want to see these borders opening up. Looks and smells to me like politics here, night before, the day before an election. Look, so many businesses are reliant on getting across the borders. So much of the tourism industry in Queensland is dependent on it. And we need to just see it opening up as quickly as possible. Hopefully, this election will be over with and we can get beyond the politics and do the right thing by the people of Queensland and the people of Australia.

DEB KNIGHT: Yeah, you’d hate to be a tourism operator, Joel?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well, Deb, Angus can’t have it both ways. He says it’s a shocking decision, and usually shocking decisions are pretty unpopular. Yet he accuses the Premier of doing it, making the announcement because there’s an election tomorrow. I rest my case. Look, people up there are very fearful of this virus. And consistently, Annastacia has been popular, supported by her community, because she has taken the minimum risk approach.

DEB KNIGHT: Hasn’t New South Wales though, proven that you can achieve both, that with great contact tracing and with jumping on the cases as they emerge that you can actually ensure that businesses can stay open and that you can stay on top of COVID? You can manage the health of individuals and the health of businesses at the same time, can’t you?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well, again, Deb, I think you yourself said earlier that you think Annastacia will win tomorrow, didn’t you? Was that you? I hope I didn’t misrepresent you there.

DEB KNIGHT: Well, I think it will be a narrow win with the help of the Greens and a minority government. That is what I’m thinking the outcome will be.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: We all want it to open up more quickly. Of course we do.

ANGUS TAYLOR: If Joel is saying these decisions should be made by whatever is popular, I mean the job here of a leader is to do what’s right for their state and for the country. And that’s what we need here. You’re absolutely right, Deb. We’ve seen how it works in New South Wales and we’ve got it to work. I’ve seen it in my electorate time and time again. It’s been very effective and it’s kept our businesses moving. 

DEB KNIGHT: Alright. Lot's to discuss today. Let's talk about the ANZ. They've been in the spotlight after their announcement of a climate test for loans, cracking down on loans for businesses that are big emitters. And David Littleproud, the Agriculture Minister, Angus, he's now threatened to revoke the deposit guarantees for the bank. Is this something that the Government would seriously consider doing?

ANGUS TAYLOR: What's clear here is, Deb, is that when banks are telling customers how to run their businesses at a detailed level, that's a problem. And that's why there was a backlash and-

DEB KNIGHT: Well, why is it up to Government to intervene? Surely, that's up to shareholders? Businesses, if they're not breaking the rules, they can run the business however they want, can’t they?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, let's be clear here, I don't think farmers take kindly to being told how to run their businesses at that detailed level by a bank. It is absolutely inappropriate. And let's be clear here, the whole idea that companies, or organisations, or countries tell their customers how to run their businesses to reduce emissions, that's not even part of the Paris Agreement. That's not how it runs. It's not how it works. So this is inappropriate.

DEB KNIGHT: Isn’t this though, up to the shareholders of these individual businesses, like the ANZ to, you know, it's up to them to decide. You're always saying you want Government to have less red tape and to not interfere. I mean, surely you're talking about not having it both ways for Joel. You guys are wanting to do the same here?

ANGUS TAYLOR: I'm saying that customers who think that the ANZ Bank is acting inappropriately by doing this should move. I mean, I think the customer is the ultimate regulator, and that is the best way to deal with a supplier like this, a service provider who is telling them how to run their business. It’s completely inappropriate.

DEB KNIGHT: And Joel, the ANZ is saying that this policy will not impact family farmers. Is it virtue signalling? Is it fair enough for the Government to be speaking out against businesses like the ANZ?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Deb, the bank has given me that guarantee on farming too. Look, there are two reasons David Littleproud was going on like a pork chop yesterday. The first is that his is the only Government in the country that doesn't have a commitment to net zero emissions by 2050. All the banks do, all the resource companies do. So it’s looking pretty embarrassing for the Government. The second point is that David Littleproud knows that there's nothing more popular, Deb, than to bash a bank. But let’s keep it in perspective. I'm not particularly happy about it all, by the way. I think the bank, the board of the bank has allowed themselves to be influenced by shareholder activists. I'd like to hear from some of those quieter shareholders who are today wondering whether they’re going to get a lesser return on their investment with the banks because of these decisions, not based on economics, but based on views about climate change.

DEB KNIGHT: And Angus, is the Government not moving quickly enough on climate change? Because we've got our biggest trading partners have all set these net zero emissions. Japan, they've pledged net zero emissions by 2050. South Korea has done the same. China is committed to carbon neutrality by 2060. Even the Philippines, they're banning all new coal-fired power stations. I mean, we've had this issue raised - climate change - by Boris Johnson, the UK Prime Minister, when he spoke to our PM earlier in the week. He wants him to take bold action on climate change. Are we not taking bold enough action?

ANGUS TAYLOR: I'll tell you what Boris Johnson and the Prime Minister agreed on earlier in this week, is that they wouldn't sacrifice jobs to reduce emissions. Now, I've spoken to the PM about this. That was very, very clear. And look, let's be clear here. We set our policies. Not state governments. Not Brussels. Not London. Not any other country. We set our policies here. Now Joel makes a comment about targets. Look, the Labor Party have set a long-term target out 30 years from now. They’ve got no 2030 target, because the last election they took a 2030 target – which I'm sure is still in the drawer ready to go – that was going to slash the economy, slash sectors, slash gas and coal and other important industries to this country, and they haven't been able to fess up that that's still sitting there in the drawer ready to go for the next election.

DEB KNIGHT: But look, it's fine for our Government to set its own policies, absolutely. But when you've got the biggest trading partners taking the policy approach that they are, what does it mean for our reliance on the coal and gas exports that is bolstering our economy?

ANGUS TAYLOR: I think Joel and I can both agree that coal and gas exports are going to be around for a long while yet. And they're important industries and they're going to prosper for many, many years to come. But I tell you what, if you're worried about Japan and Korea’s targets, you should be far more worried about Labor's targets, because that's directly in this country, not in another country.

DEB KNIGHT: Well, let's talk a bit about Labor, because, Joel, your party, you've finally gotten on the same page, it seems, on gas. You've all agreed to support new gas projects, have you?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: And of course, we support gas, Deb. It’s not only-

DEB KNIGHT: Not everyone in the party did.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Used for electricity generation, it’s used as a heat source, and a feed stock in our manufacturing sector. We can't put more renewables into the energy grid without firming power from our gas-fired generators. So, of course we do. I think we've had some differences in languages in the past, some of my colleagues like to talk more and more about renewables and renewables jobs, rightly so. But I want my party talking just as much, and just as loudly, and just as proudly about those workers who are employed in the coal, coal generation, gas, and oil industry. So-

DEB KNIGHT: And how much sway do the unions have on that, getting all on the same page? Because earlier this week we have the CFMEU, the workers’ union, addressing the Labor Party, saying that you're losing voters over coal and gas.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well, they were there at my invitation, Deb. And, of course, those unions, who together represent industries who employ at least directly 1.5 million Australians, of course, they are on board too in ensuring that we support our traditional industries. Industries which will be critical to getting more renewables into the system and therefore critical as we move towards zero net emissions in 2050. 

DEB KNIGHT: Now, I want to end on, I want to end on a light note, fellas, because time is against us. It's Halloween tomorrow, and I noticed in The Australian newspaper today, they put together a list of how we can all dress up as politicians. That's enough to scare people, isn't it? And we've got PM Scott Morrison suggestion, you could wear a Hawaiian shirt and a hammer for a chicken coop. Two doughnuts and a North Face jacket for Dan Andrews. Joel, what's your suggestion if people want to dress up as Angus?

JOEL FITZGBBON: Oh, gee, Deb. Look, I think probably a hessian shoulder bag with a hemp shirt, and some nice leather sandals, because Angus, at every opportunity, says he's going to meet and beat his climate change targets.

DEB KNIGHT: [Laughs] Oh!

JOEL FITZGBBON: You know, there is no more progressive and committed a person to climate change action as is Angus Taylor. 

DEB KNIGHT: Hello! Them fighting words. Angus, how should people dress up as Joel?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, I think they should go dressed as Mark Butler if they’re trying to be Joel. Because I think Joel will be the Labor Shadow Minister for Energy soon. 

DEB KNIGHT: [Laughs] Okay, alright. There's the prediction. There’s the prediction. You can take that and run with it, Joel.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Thanks team. Thanks for nothing.

DEB KNIGHT: Alright. Good on you, fellas. We'll talk again next week.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Talk soon, bye.

ENDS