DEB KNIGHT: Lots to cover this week with Minister for Energy and Emissions Reduction Angus Taylor and Shadow Agriculture and Resources Minister Joel Fitzgibbon. They're both on the line for us now. Fellas, thanks for joining us.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks Deb, Joel.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Good to be with you, team.

DEB KNIGHT: Now, first off, Angus, your plan for a gas-led recovery, which was announced earlier this week, getting a fair bit of support, fair bit of traction, and from the other side of politics, you've got Joel and even Bill Shorten giving it a bit of a tick. But some young people, they're not happy about it. They're out protesting again today.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, we need a balance in our energy system and gas is a great opportunity. It's an area where there's more potential. Remember, we don't just use it for energy - we use it for critical goods like bricks and fertiliser, plastics. And there's a great opportunity because we are the biggest exporter in the world. We can use more of it domestically. We want Australians to benefit from all of that. And I'm delighted to see we're getting support from completely unexpected quarters, the AWU, the CFMEU, Tony Maher, very clear on this. We're not getting support from Mark Butler. One of his colleagues described him as as “useless as a vegan in a butcher shop”. Now, I don't know what Joel thinks about that, but we were delighted with the support we had from most quarters this week.

DEB KNIGHT: Yeah. Well I wanted to ask you about that, Joel. You also were called reportedly “the idiot for Hunter” by Mark Dreyfus. I mean that's all a bit mean, isn't it?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: [Laughs] Well I wear that as a badge of honour, Deb. In my experience, if Mark Dreyfus is criticising you, you're probably on the right track. And I'll continue to argue the case on behalf of my constituents and all those blue collar workers who know, as Angus said, gas is not just used importantly as a generator of electricity, but rather about 37 per cent of our domestic consumption is used by our manufacturing sector and of course we earn big export income. We're the exporter of LNG and of course that's what pays for our imported goods.

DEB KNIGHT: So what's Labor policy then? I mean, if you've got, you know, both sides, your colleagues, you all seem to be having a go, different views on whether there should be support for gas or not, different views on whether you should support coal or not. Where do you stand?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well, Deb, Labor's still in that post-election phase-

DEB KNIGHT: It's been a while since the election.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Where all of our policies remain in the mix while we've got a, hopefully a national conference coming, which is where we solidify our positions. One thing is certain that, while it's a very diverse party, we all I think strive for one thing and that's equality of opportunity. And while this is a matter for discussion, I will continue to be a loud voice on behalf of working people, all those people who work in the oil, gas, coal industries, coal-powered generators, you name it, to ensure that they have a future. Gas will play a significant part in our economy for many decades to come, and it's the only way, because it delivers firming power, that we will be able to get more renewables into the system.

DEB KNIGHT: And Angus, why not set a target for emissions reductions?

ANGUS TAYLOR: We have a target. We’ve got a 2030 target. Labor doesn't but we do, and it's a sensible target. We can achieve it. We've achieved our 2020 target, and we're going to do it without imposing taxes or hurting the economy. And gas is part of that and balance in our energy system, coal will continue to play an import role for many, many years to come. And renewables, we're world leaders. We've got the highest level of household solar on our roofs. So we're taking practical action to reach that 2030 target. We will reach it. We continue to do sensible things and things that are good for job creation, good for investment, good for the economy.

DEB KNIGHT: Alright. I want to get onto the border stoush. This argy-bargy between the Queensland Government and the Federal Government, which I think is just getting a bit ridiculous. The constant barbs, the tit for tat, all in the media. It's not a good look, Angus, for anyone.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well the borders issue has been an issue from very early on in all of this, and we've got to make sure that the states do the right thing to the extent that we can.

DEB KNIGHT: Well Steven Miles has come out very publicly, accusing the Prime Minister of using the ADF troops as a bargaining chip-

ANGUS TAYLOR: That's just rot.

DEB KNIGHT: Calling the Treasurer a liar, basically saying that it's the feds playing politics here.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well that's absolute rot. So let's go to the facts here. We agreed that the ADF would provide Queensland authorities support on border control, points back on the 7th of August, until the 30th of September. That was the agreement. And of course, the ADF has other things to do. They've got to play a role in quarantine arrangements, preparing for the high-risk weather season we've got ahead, and the truth is that they will always continue to provide support to state and territories' pandemic responses where there is an immediate health threat. But the judgment here from some time back was that 30th of September was an appropriate time to pull back. And look, we need sensible policies on borders. We need people to be able to move through borders in an appropriate way. And the ADF is not going to support inappropriate restrictions on the borders.

DEB KNIGHT: And Joel, it seems as though the Queensland Premier, the Deputy Premier, to me, they've got a hide, claiming that it's the feds playing politics here. I mean they're playing politics just as much as anyone.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well Deb, quite frankly, like I suspect all of your listeners, I'm sick and tired of the tit for tat. I could be wrong, I may be a week out, but I believe we've talked about this issue on this segment now for the last six weeks and it really shouldn't be all that hard. So, you know, the Prime Minister said he was going to show strong leadership through the National Cabinet. I wish he'd show some and just get this thing sorted out and the premiers, of course, who have been pretty tough on borders, are very, very popular in their respective states. So, you know, I think it is time we just put this thing-

DEB KNIGHT: It's popular, but is it the right thing though, Joel?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well, you know, it is leadership following the will of the people. Obviously a balancing act as you know - follow the health advice, keeping the borders close is tough on our economy but opening them up and having a second and third round is even harder on the economy. So I'll leave it to the premiers to work through this with the Prime Minister. But gee, I think we're all sick and tired of the debate.

DEB KNIGHT: Well, yeah.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well that's not been the issue - the issue is whether the ADF should support that border closure post-30th of September and from very early on, we said we wouldn't. So, you know, it's time we get on with it and it's not a role for ADF to play because the states can't manage their borders when they decide to lock them down at this point. When there's a serious health issue, yes, it's appropriate the ADF get involved, but when it gets to politics, absolutely not.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well this is a genuine question because I don't know the answer - why is the ADF being withdrawn from different states at different times? Is there a fair explanation for that?

ANGUS TAYLOR: They need to focus on where there is the highest pandemic risk. They're involved in mandatory quarantine arrangements and managing that. They're also heavily involved, as we saw with the bushfires, including in my electorate and I think you saw them in yours too, Joel, last summer. And they've got to be ready for a weather season that will be different from last year, that's very clear. But they've got to be ready to provide support.

DEB KNIGHT: Alright. Let's move on, I want to talk about the responsible lending laws that the Treasurer Josh Frydenberg has revealed plans to scrap. Joel, these laws, they were introduced by the Rudd Government. Do you support this move to scrap them?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well this is a time when it's important that we can ensure that people have ready accessibility to credit, there's no doubt about that. But we also need to keep protections in place so that people don't over indebt themselves and they do have the capacity to repay loans. We need to make sure that lenders are doing the right thing. We also know, of course, that with the royal commission, banks have become a bit jittery and risk averse. So we need to address that as well. We'll have a look at what Josh is proposing and if it's sensible, we'll back it.

DEB KNIGHT: And on China, calls this week from a coalition of MPs from all around the world, including Australia, for Beijing to be stripped of the 2022 Winter Olympics because of human rights abuses. Angus, is there merit to this?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, really, that's a matter for the International Olympic Committee, Deb. I'm not going to get involved in that one. It's a matter they need to work their way through.

DEB KNIGHT: Alright. I wanted to ask you both too about Dean Jones' passing, very sad day for fans of cricket. He was a legend, known as ‘the Legend’ as his nickname, dying suddenly from a heart attack and it is a great loss for the sport and for Australia, isn't it, all round, Joel?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Yeah and that word, legend's, being bandied around today pretty much Deb, including by yourself and, you know, too often that that descriptor gets thrown around too lightly I think. But with respect to Dean Jones, it's a perfect description of who he was and what he was. He was not only skilful but he was a leader, he was a great sportsman and of course, he was courageous and just a great inspiration for every young cricketer.

DEB KNIGHT: And he was wonderful to watch on the pitch, wasn't he, Angus?

Media contact:

Minister Taylor's office: 02 6277 7120