DEB KNIGHT: Our pollies Angus Taylor and Joel Fitzgibbon are on the line. They join us every Friday to look at the big issues of the week. And before we dive into that, I wanted to just hear from you both on such a momentous day tomorrow, that 75th anniversary, because it's such an important moment to mark but also it really did change our country, didn't it our contribution, Angus, in World War II?

ANGUS TAYLOR: It sure did. Actually, it was really moving hearing Betty's comments. My wife's grandfather was in Changi as well and I got to know him well before he died a few years back. But you know, what a generation. I mean, what do you say about a group of people who went through what they did.

DEB KNIGHT: Yeah.

ANGUS TAYLOR: And did what they did for our country. So extraordinary.

DEB KNIGHT: Yeah, a true inspiration. And Joel, you're a former Defence Minister. Obviously you've dealt with our current serving troops as well, and such good news this week with Ordinary Seaman Edward "Teddy" Sheean awarded the posthumous Victoria Cross. So well-deserved.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Yes, it was great news Deb, and you are correct, as a former Defence Minister it's a special day for me. And I join with Angus in all of his comments. And I thank you, your team and 2GB for promoting the commemoration tomorrow and paying so many tributes to those who served and indeed as you pointed out those who stayed at home under difficult circumstances and kept the home fires burning.

DEB KNIGHT: It was truly a remarkable generation and it's wonderful to hear their stories. We'll hear some more calls from them too shortly. Now, in terms of COVID, a big week of course. We've had the Aged Care Royal Commission, Victoria's inquiry into hotel quarantine, and the Ruby Princess findings. They're due to be handed down today to the New South Wales Government. The numbers of infection rates though, they're looking quite good. Angus, are you quietly confident like our Health Minister Greg Hunt? He spoke to us yesterday. He was quietly confident that we are past the peak.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, I certainly hope so and we all do Deb because we're seeing the devastation this is causing in Victoria and I don't think any of us want to see that repeated. So yes hopeful, but we've got to stay vigilant, we've got to stay on this and we'll continue to. We have to get businesses back in business and people back in work as quickly as we can. We just know how important that is. I'm seeing the contrast now between my hometown of Goulburn and my electorate and what's going on in Victoria. We really do need to get things going again, and that means keeping this infection rate down.

DEB KNIGHT: And we've got to learn the mistakes too, that’ve - big mistakes that have occurred. Ruby Princess is one, aged care. And with the aged care sector being in the spotlight this week, I find it quite incredible that National Cabinet will discuss an Aged Care Preparedness Plan at National Cabinet next week. I mean, the horse has bolted here. Why did we not already have that plan in place, Angus?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, there are lots of plans in place. I mean, the infection control guidelines went into place on 13 March, and there's case managers, access to PPE, testing-

DEB KNIGHT: And yet still we've seen these failings.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, and it's a very tough time for our aged care sector. There's no question. I mean, they really are at the epicentre of this virus and so there's no question that it has been a struggle. Some have coped better than others, there's no question about that. We have to learn quickly, adapt and improve our response as time goes on, and that's exactly what's happening.

DEB KNIGHT: And border closures are obviously the big issue as you say, trying to get the economy back up and running. We've got the sort of conflicting needs here ensuring the health of the community is protected, but also the economic health of the community - they sort of cancel each other out which is such a difficult struggle. But Joel, Shadow Agriculture Minister, do you think that the Federal Government should intervene on the issue of border closures? Because it's having a big impact, isn't it, on freight and farmers with sort of, they can't get in, they can't get out, and it's really hitting hard.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Just on the mistakes that have been made first. The key point is that the politicians have to own the mistakes. We've got to stop this argy-bargy, you know, the Commonwealth blaming the states, the states blaming the Commonwealth.

DEB KNIGHT: Do you think Daniel Andrews is owning the mistakes?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Well, I think all politicians could do more to own the mistakes. I mean, the Prime Minister talked up the National Cabinet as the clearing house for all these important decisions. He boasts about the successes. He runs for cover when things go wrong. But I direct your listeners to the journalist David Crowe's piece in The Sydney Morning Herald today. Forget about the politicians because they all have a barrow to push. If you want some objective analysis about what's going on read David Crowe today. You will see that there's plenty of blame to go around and plenty of responsibility be taken ...

DEB KNIGHT: And look, I'm not interested in the blame game. I'm interested in ensuring that the lessons are learned and that's what every Australian wants to know. I mean, I don’t give two hoots about, you know, the ‘gotcha’ moment. That's politics. What we want to know as a community is that you guys are learning from the mistakes and ensuring that they're not repeated.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Exactly.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Look, I couldn't agree more, Deb. I think that's absolutely right. Our job isn't to spend the whole time criticising, our job is to get in and support and solve problems and give Australia its best chance of dealing with what is both a health crisis and of course an economic crisis, as you made the point about agriculture.

DEB KNIGHT: And what do we do about the border issue? Because National Cabinet, I thought had devised some sort of code of conduct for freight and truckies to prevent the problem of people who live near the borders not able to get supplies or transport their produce because the borders are shut down. But there seems to be big issues with that.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Quickly Deb, the first step to learning from the mistakes is to take responsibility for the mistakes, and again, I think there could be more of that. The border issue is a really important one, particularly for our farmers. Happily, I learned today that the New South Wales and Victorian Government are very close, as I understand it, to an arrangement which will fix that problem. But again, this is an example of the National Cabinet not doing its job. The fact is that I think it's taken on too much. The Prime Minister abolished the COAG process, the usual arrangement between the Commonwealth and the states where ministers met together rather than the Prime Minister trying to do all these things. As the Prime Minister, he needs to learn to share the workload. He can't do everything.

DEB KNIGHT: Is it not working, Angus?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well look, it's working in places and it can work better in other places. Look, let's take agriculture, which is a good one to raise. I've had calls from farmers about getting shearers across borders for instance, and Joel will be aware of those issues. We are working as a priority with the states to resolve those issues. That's what has to happen. You know, the real point here is we've got to get in, solve the problems and that's exactly what we're doing. These things, when a state like Victoria locks itself up, then you have to get on and solve all the problems that flow from that, many of which were not originally anticipated.

DEB KNIGHT: Yeah.

ANGUS TAYLOR: And agriculture and making sure - because this is a real animal welfare issue, not just an economic issue for farmers - these issues do need to be solved and the states need to work with us and we'll play whatever role we can to support them.

DEB KNIGHT: Alright. Now I want to end on a nice note as we do every week and I don't know if you've heard that VB has released this new perfume, this new fragrance. It's called ‘Thirst’, and apparently it smells like VB. And Warnie's also released his first ever fragrance, ‘SW23’ which you can get at Chemist Warehouse – a great sponsor of ours. 23 was Shane's number when he played one-day cricket. Now Joel, if you could smell like anything, what would it be?

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Deb, many of your listeners will be familiar with the word liniment.

DEB KNIGHT: Yeah, ‘deep heat’.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: You know, it's that heat rub that used to fill the football dressing sheds as the warriors ran out to play. So, you know, my message there of course is for people to know I mean business.

DEB KNIGHT: [Laughs] Lathered up with ‘deep heat’, here he comes. Angus, what about you?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well we're spoilt for choice aren't we with both VB and Shane Warne.

DEB KNIGHT: I know. Where do you go first?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Fantastic. Yeah. Where do you go next? But look, after having had almost eight inches of rain on my farm just in the last week, I can't go past the smell of rain on a dry paddock, Deb.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Yep.

DEB KNIGHT: Oh, nothing beats it.

ANGUS TAYLOR: One of the most beautiful smells.

DEB KNIGHT: You bet. We need more of it where it's needed over the Great Dividing Range. Good on you fellas. Great to talk. Thanks so much for joining us.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks.

JOEL FITZGIBBON: Thanks Team.

ENDS