CHRIS KENNY: But I want to stay in Canberra now and catch up with the Energy Minister Angus Taylor. Angus Taylor, good to talk to you. I've got to say that- before we get into the debate about energy policy, it seemed here, while I was busy in meetings in Moree today, which I'll talk about in a moment, our team went out and looked at the extensive solar farm out here. A really impressive solar plant that, obviously, is churning energy into the grid in New South Wales when the sun shines, and there's pretty heavy skies here at the moment. But we've got some messages from people even working on the solar farm that this renewable energy caper isn’t quite as green and the green jobs aren't really there the way a lot of people like to suggest. Have a look. 

     

[Excerpt]

SOLAR FARM WORKER – VOX POP: There's a big hooho that it's going to be so great for the town, but I don't see the benefits of it. Our power's no cheaper, you know. We just sell the power to the energy company and the energy company just puts whatever they want on it, and we're still paying the same power bills. The panels are meant to last 25 years, but we've got some here that last a year, some last three years, and there's nowhere for them to go. It's just waste. 

    

[End of excerpt]

CHRIS KENNY: Angus Taylor, it's a grass root example, isn't it, because we all love renewable energy - who wouldn't? As long as it's there when we want it. But the idea that it's some magic formula that gives you energy whenever you want it and creates all these green jobs, well that hasn't really materialised anywhere yet. 

ANGUS TAYLOR: I'd make a couple of comments about it, Chris. Good to see you're in Moree, by the way. Great agriculture region, powerhouse. The point I'd make about it is, number one, the truth of these projects is there's good jobs during construction, there's much less during operation. That's the nature of it. But it also needs to be balanced against dispatchable power. This is crucially important. The complement to solar, whether it's on your roof or in a large scale solar farm like the one your team saw today, is that it's got to be balanced against dispatchable power, like gas, like coal, like pumped hydro. Those projects provide jobs. But, you know, the most important jobs of all, are the jobs alongside those important jobs we get from our gas generators and coal generators, but we need jobs from customers - 850,000 people working in manufacturing in Australia - they rely on affordable, reliable energy. The good news is we are seeing sharp reductions in the wholesale price of energy in Australia now. Eight consecutive quarters of wholesale price reductions. They are around half of where they were a couple of years ago. We've seen a 9 per cent reduction in the CPI for energy, for electricity across Australia in the last 12 months. It's a great time for people to get on the phone and ask for a better deal from their energy providers, because there are good deals around.

CHRIS KENNY: Just on that, Angus Taylor, before I get into reliability of supply, if prices are going down right across the country, does that show that the big boost in renewable energy over the last decade is paying dividends in price?

ANGUS TAYLOR: There's no doubt there's more supply coming in, but what we've also seen since the closure of Hazelwood, which was a big problem, because it wasn't properly replaced, but since then, we've seen less going out. This is the key. As our big older power stations close - some are getting very old, that's the nature of our grid, that we've got some very old power stations - they've got to be properly replaced, particularly the dispatchable ones. That's the focus now. With Lidell we've got closing in 2023, we've said to the private sector you step up or we'll step in, and we're prepared to build a major gas generator in the Hunter Valley to replace that capacity if the private sector is not doing it. So it's a matter of keeping supply in as well as encouraging that new supply coming in. The combination of the two is working for us. It will continue to work for us as long as we keep that going.

CHRIS KENNY: Yeah, I want to talk about that, because we've had the decision in Victoria with the Yallourn power station bringing its closure forward. You've made that intervention in New South Wales to enforce some dispatchable power. Let's see how that plays out. What are you going to do with Victoria? Because the problem with both of these issues is you'll sound all the warning bells now, but we're not going to deal with the consequences, the price hikes and the power shortages, for five, six, 10 years to come. So are you intervening in Victoria any time soon?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yeah, it's a good question, Chris. Well, the bad news is, is bringing forward Yallourn's closure. The plan always was to begin closure from 2028, but what we're seeing now from Energy Australia is a decision to move to full closure in 2028. That means 500 jobs are lost in 2028. I was down in the Latrobe Valley last week, and that in itself is clearly an issue. The good news is we have seven years, which is a lot longer than we had with Hazelwood. And that seven years, I can tell you, we're not going to waste time. We're immediately doing the work now to make sure there's replacement. It's going to be genuine replacement. 1480 megawatts going, it's not enough to replace it with 350 megawatt battery. In fact, Cath Tanna, the head of Energy Australia has made that point. She said that can play a role, but that can't be full replacement. We need genuine replacement of that capacity leaving the market, so that we continue to put downward pressure on prices and keep the lights on. We'll be working with the state government, with the private sector to make sure that happens. But we do expect the private sector to step up. Our Government, we've shown we're prepared to play a role if we need to. We've got some time here on our side, but we're not going to waste any of that time.

CHRIS KENNY: Current large scale battery technology is just not the answer, is it? Sure, it helps to smooth out the wrinkles in the grid and it's quite profitable for those large batteries, but it's not a backup to supply. So you're making very clear that you will intervene in Victoria, the same way you have in New South Wales, if necessary?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, look, we've got time on our side. We've shown we're prepared to step up if we have to. We've also shown we're prepared to think ahead. It's true that the impact of this won't be felt for seven years directly, although the truth is, manufacturers in Victoria want to know that there's going to be an answer, because they've got a plan ahead, many years ahead, for their investments. The signal we're sending is we're going to play an active role. We need the Victorian Government to play an active role, and we need the private sector to play an active role, but we're not going to sit around twiddling our thumbs waiting on this one. We're going to get stuck into it straight away and make sure we have an answer. It's got to be a real answer, an answer that's actually going to have the impact on prices and reliability, the positive impact on prices and reliability, we want to see.

CHRIS KENNY: Just finally, Angus Taylor, as a conservative MP who is a male, your take on the ‘March 4 Justice’ today? We would all agree with the sentiments of wanting to increase equality, wanting to get rid of sexual violence, want to eradicate sexual harassment. But do you feel that as a conservative male, you were the target of those protests?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Oh, look, I don't know – that is a question for the protesters. I do think that democracy, as a bedrock, has a right to protest. People have a right to freedom of speech. That's enormously important. As a conservative, I believe in that very strongly, Chris. I think that's enormously important. I think sexual assault is an important issue to talk about. There's no question that there has been areas of our community where we've seen strong incidence of that and we need to do everything we can to alleviate it and prevent it. The flip side of it is that serious allegations need to be dealt with through our judicial system according to the rule of law. I think we can get that balance right. It's important to get that balance right, and that's what we're always seeking to do.

CHRIS KENNY: Angus Taylor, thanks for joining us. 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks, Chris, for having me.



ENDS