ALAN JONES: Angus Taylor is the Federal Minister for Energy and whatever else he might know or not know, it's generally conceded - this is not my pumping up Angus Taylor's tyres - it's generally conceded that this bloke has most probably forgotten more before he came into the parliament about energy policy and renewable energy than everybody in the parliament knows. And as I've said early today, he's just got to be laughing - you can't take this stuff serious. And Angus Taylor, good morning to you. Thank you for your time but I'm sorry I can't take this stuff seriously. So, we're going to install - what? - 1 million batteries, isn't that proof positive that they're not going to be able to provide the electricity required from solar and wind?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, let me add another stat to what you just said there, Alan. If you took the batteries that Bill Shorten's going to pay for - [inaudible] the big new Labor handout, they love their handouts and I've got nothing against people putting up batteries if it's a personal choice but if you take the money he's going to spend on it, that will keep the Tomago smelter going - up near Newcastle - for about 15 minutes, $200 million worth he's going to spend on this; 15 minutes for an aluminium smelter. Now, if we want to keep heavy industry going in this country, if we want to keep the aluminium smelters going - the steel mills, the abattoirs - if we want to make sure that we've got the jobs in all of those industries that require energy, so impor- irrigators out there with the drought, they use a huge amount of energy; if we want to keep these industries alive and well and competitive in this country, we've got to have low cost affordable reliable sources of power. Now, what Bill Shorten has conceded in what he's put out today is that you will pay more for your power under Labor; that is absolutely clear. You can't trust Bill Shorten to keep the lights on and it appears that he's on the side of the big energy companies. And they're three things we simply won't stand for. And it's why we're determined - as I've said before on your show, Alan - to bring in more affordable reliable 24/7 power - that means coal, gas, hydro... You've got to get the mix right. But it's got to be power that's [inaudible]...

ALAN JONES: Well, look, this is...

ANGUS TAYLOR: At a low cost.

ALAN JONES: Look, I'm sorry, normally I would allow myself to be involved in a deep philosophical or policy debate here. I can't take this seriously, I'm sorry. There will be a litmus test this Saturday, will there not? Because Daniel Andrews, himself - it will be interesting to see whether the Victorians are alert to all of this - he has a legislated policy of 25 per cent of renewables by 2020, 40 per cent by 2040 - and the closure of Hazelwood has taken 25 per cent of Victoria's energy requirements out of the grid - he's unveiled six new solar and wind farms, a-billion-dollars, taxpayers' money, five of the six projects are foreign-owned and now he's got this crackpot proposal - a bit like Bill Shorten - that they'll install 11 diesel generators at the Mornington Peninsula. Just one simple question - because I think all of this has got to be reduced to simplicities - from your perspective and your knowledge - and as I said you've forgotten more about this than most people know - if you start talking about installing batteries in 100,000 or a-million homes, doesn't it mean that you're admitting that you cannot guarantee reliable, available and affordable energy via wind and solar?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yes. That's exactly right, Alan. And the real problem with this is even if they install those batteries, it doesn't touch the sites, it's not even close to enough. You know, 15 minutes for the Tomago smelter. I mean, if we want to keep jobs in this country, if we want to keep manufacturing, if we want to be a country that keeps making things, you have to have an electricity system that's affordable that can provide that reliable power.

ALAN JONES: Okay. Well, you're not the prime minister but why wouldn't you call an election immediately - this is such a critical national issue - and make this alone the issue? You want to go this or that way, it's energy policy. I mean, this is a suicide note - this is an economic suicide note - which I have been warning for some time. Just hang on there because there's some callers here want to ask you a question. Dave from Wollongong, yes Angus Taylor's on the line, Dave.

CALLER DAVE: Yeah. Ask the minister...

ALAN JONES: You ask him, you ask him.

CALLER DAVE: What would be the carbon footprint to build all of these batteries?

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, it would be enormous but the bigger issue- and, Dave, if you're down in Wollongong, you've got a steel mill there, it needs low cost affordable reliable power. I was down there just last week at Port Kembla and this is- we've got to have the affordable reliable power and you simply can't get it at the price we need to in the way Bill Shorten's proposing to do it.

ALAN JONES: That's a very good point that Dave makes, isn't it? I mean, if they're talking about reducing the carbon footprint how much carbon dioxide is going to be emitted in the manufacture of all these millions of batteries?

ANGUS TAYLOR: No, you're right, Alan. But at the end of the day we've got to have affordable, reliable power [inaudible]...

ALAN JONES: That's all that matters. Got to be available, affordable and reliable.

ANGUS TAYLOR: Exactly right.

ALAN JONES: Alright, Minister, good on you. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Dave.