PAUL MURRAY: We spend billions of dollars on making sure that we have a training system that can help people get practical skills to go off and get a job. The system is failing; not enough people are doing apprenticeships. The money is inartfully spent in certain places and this is going to be a big focus of the Federal Government for the next little while.

The person with that responsibility to try to redraw the system – not in an ideological but just in a simple way that gets people qualifications and to a job as fast as possible – is Michaelia Cash because she’s the Employment Minister, the Skills Minister, Small Business Minister as well. We had a chance to talk in Canberra today.

MINISTER CASH: The answer to every question we ask ourselves now, regardless of who we are, is it in the best interest of Australians? Is it going to ensure that a business is able to either start again or continue trading, prosper, grow and ultimately create more jobs for Australians? And what has COVID-19 shown us? It's actually shown us that, when we have to, we can come together as stakeholders, who would normally be at polar opposite ends of the scale, make decisions in the best interests of the people who matter; and that is the Australian people. Look at where we can get to.

The speech by the Prime Minister today has been really welcomed – apart from the Labor Party of course. But even Sally McManus was out there and saying, you know, there is an opportunity now to continue working together; it's all about jobs.

PAUL MURRAY: Yeah. And this is the thing, I mean, look, we know what's going to happen in two years’ time. Everyone, they will all go back to their corners, they'll build a war chest, they'll campaign again - okay, cool. We get it, right? We know which side they’re on.

MINISTER CASH: But, that’s politics. That's exactly right. Correct. That's just politics.

PAUL MURRAY: Yeah and that's what frustrates me. It’s is that there are so many people who focus exclusively on the politics, versus once the results of the politics equals the power, how you use it, how you distribute it, how you interact with each other.

And, another thing the Prime Minister was talking about was training. Now, we have just had a national and international lesson in what an essential worker is. And, I'm sorry to break it to the philosophy students, I'm sorry to break it to those that, you know, had a BA humanities in gender studies; it's about people who can build stuff, it's about people who can do things. And that means we've got to have training, vocational training, TAFE working at its best. And by the Prime Minister's own admission today, it's not working at its best. What do you think?

MINISTER CASH: And that's exactly right. Look, Paul, it hasn't been working now for many, many years. Why? Because you have an agreement, it was set up by the former Labor government, and under that agreement, the National Agreement on Skills and Workforce Development, the Commonwealth, every year, puts around $1.5 billion into it. And guess what? No line of sight in terms of where the funding’s spent, no KPI’s in terms of what the funding’s spent on apart from skills. When you look at how we determine what skills are actually in demand at any point in time, there's nothing authoritative across Australia, states and territories - they produce different skills lists for different needs.

We've now got to honestly say, the system is not working for Australians, it is not working for employers. If we are not giving employers the employees with the skills they need, how do you go on to get the better paid jobs? Logically, you don't. I was pleased to see Sally McManus come out today and acknowledge that. Better skilled employees equals more for employers which, ultimately, equals higher paid jobs. That's good news. And now we all need to work together to deliver.

PAUL MURRAY: Well, this is the thing, I mean, if the system works well, it's not about that the boss gets to put an extra storey on the house and buy a second car, it's that he might be able to- he or she might be able to do that. But guess what? You might be able to do it too, as the worker. You too might be able to have shares in the company. There's lots of different ways you can own the wealth that doesn't mean we sort of go down this, sort of, the Greens end of the garden here. Now, about small business. You know, I've been bashing my head against the wall.

MINISTER CASH: Yep.

PAUL MURRAY: I'm sure it annoys you as well, almost used off-air language, about these border closures, because the calculation is so strange to me, right? The virus versus the economy. I don't think there's even a versus there, it's just the consequence of denying people trade is that more people will go out of business. As a Small Business Minister, how do you feel that your own home state of Western Australia, Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, the Northern Territory are saying, we are shut, and it's only for the couple of million people who live here as opposed to the 25 million people who live on the same island?

MINISTER CASH: Look, the Prime Minister made it pretty clear a few weeks ago now when National Cabinet met. From the Federal Government's perspective, it is time to reopen the economy, to reopen those borders and to get us all back into business. We collectively as a nation made decisions a number of weeks ago now to respond to the virus. We have successfully done that. People now have the COVIDSafe app downloaded – we'd love to see more, but around six million Australians have – we have the COVID safe workplaces.

It is time now to say, what is in the best interests of Australians? And in particular, as you’ve acknowledged, those small and family businesses who rely on people coming to them and not just their own state. In particular, look at tourism; they rely on people coming from other parts of Australia to support their businesses. So, certainly, from the Federal Government's perspective, there is no medical reason as to why now interstate borders should remain shut, and we would like to see them opened sooner rather than later.

PAUL MURRAY: How many times do we have to say it?

Michaelia Cash, Employment Minister, Skills Minister, Small and Family Business Minister.

ENDS