GREG JENNETT: Well, this country’s got about 25 years to get net carbon emissions down to zero, and that’s endorsed by all major parties across the parliament. On the way there as renewable energy sources expand, every coal-fired electricity plant will go, and the thinking was gas would be phased out too. But not so fast. 

Cutting through a thicket of words about the clean energy transition, the Albanese government has today published a definitive 67-page strategy document which endorses an ongoing role for gas up to 2050 and then beyond it. More than that, it foresees a need for even more gas here in Australia than is currently available as demand for it outstrips supply, especially for industrial uses. 

Well, the document has infuriated the Greens and environment groups, and it might even have the potential to disrupt the Albanese government’s broader legislative agenda. We’ll take a look today. 

We’re live from Canberra. I’m Greg Jennett. You’re watching Afternoon Briefing. Well, turning straight to the government’s gas strategy out today, it’s the product of months of consultation and, in plain English, it says Australia doesn’t have enough gas on either the east or the west coast, with supply crunches looming in three to five years from now. Beyond that, the government’s plans look to ongoing reliance on gas for steel, cement and heavy industrial needs. It also seeks to reassure international customers, including Japan, China and Korea, that supplies of liquified gas can be maintained through to 2040, perhaps even longer. Resources Minister Madeleine King is responsible for preparing this plan for the gas industry. She joined us from Beef 24 activities in Rockhampton. Madeleine King, you’ve been a real stayer at Beef Week in Rockhampton throughout the week; I think you might be into your fourth day. Thank you for finding some time from a fascinating occasion there I’m sure, for you. Let’s talk gas, though. You’ve put out a strategy which is very clear and unambiguous that gas is here to stay and even more of it will be needed. It removes, I would suggest, some of the understated or dismissive treatment of gas by some in the government and the parliament more generally. Is this also an admission, Madeleine King, that the government has been too ambiguous about the centrality of gas to the economy? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Thanks, Greg. And thanks for your crew coming out here. It’s wonderful to be here at Beef 24 in Rocky, an amazing collection of really hard-working Australians working in the cattle industry from right across the north and then some parts of the south as well. So it’s a real honour to be here and to get to share this great community spirit with the Queenslanders of Rocky and all their friends. But to your question around the Future Gas Strategy - I do want to make it really clear that the Albanese government is committed to net zero emissions by 2050. We are the only government that has legislated for that, and we are determined to get there. The Future Gas Strategy is about how gas fits within the principle of getting to net zero because we know you have to balance the future needs of the country – everyday consumers and businesses – as well as industry and manufacturing. We want them to get to net zero. But it's net zero by 2050, and we have to make sure there’s a pathway toward that. And this is a long research piece that has been undertaken over the course of nearly a year. Over 250 submissions from the public, from industry, from state and local governments, from environmental groups, from just general individual members of the public, and that is what has informed the gas strategy we’re releasing today. There’s a bit going on here, sorry.

GREG JENNETT: No, I can appreciate that. But you’re coming through loud and clear, I can assure you. 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Right, thank you. 

GREG JENNETT: Minister, is the gas strategy also an advertisement for future investment which the strategy itself highlights will be needed to meet demand? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yeah, what we know from the gas strategy and from the research we’ve done, the analytical report that will be published with it, is that we need more supply to make sure we can meet the demand. We do want demand to go down for gas, and we are working towards that. We have a safeguard mechanism which makes sure Industry seeks to lower its emissions, and we have support for households to transition and electrify. So that’s the pathway we are on. But we will need more investment into more fields to make sure we can make it through the transition while having not only energy security but affordable energy for households and the manufacturing industry of this country. And we must remember that we will need the high-heat applications that gas participates in for the processing of critical minerals and rare earths, which are vital to green energy technology. We can’t get that technology, we can’t decarbonise without having critical minerals. And at the moment to process them we will need gas to fire that. 

GREG JENNETT: All right. So for domestic purposes, particularly on the east coast, where in all likelihood is that gas going to come from? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, as we know, the oil and gas fields of the Bass Strait are now depleting and that is – comes from Commonwealth waters and is processed in Victoria. And for the most part is used a bit in Victoria but also goes to New South Wales. So, I imagine that we will see the Narrabri come online in the future. Certainly the proponents are working toward that, and that will be a domestic source of gas, and the proponents have committed to that. That will be a big step in the right direction. There’s also, of course, the work we’re doing with the Queensland producers up in Gladstone, the three LNG facilities up there on Curtis Island. And through the heads of agreement and the code of conduct as well as the Australian domestic security mechanism, we will make sure that there is adequate supply. But the thing I want to point out is, it is expensive to move gas around, like it is expensive to move any commodity around. So the closer the gas is to the demand, the cheaper it will be. But, you know, it’s up to state governments and territory governments to decide what they want to do. And I respect those decisions and I really do respect the work the Victorian government is doing in powering forward to renewables, because they have one of the highest uses of household gas. But there are different choices in different states. WA has made a different choice. While it retires out of coal really quickly it will need gas in the meantime while renewables and battery storage comes online. And Queensland has got another choice. So, you know, we just have to be mindful that different states have different needs and are able to achieve net zero differently. And I think the Future Gas Strategy is a really respectful way of thinking about that. 

GREG JENNETT: Does that mean you’re letting the Victorian government off the hook now? I mean, it’s a matter of record, Madeleine King, that in the past you’ve publicly advised it to, you know, crack on and look for more gas against its current policy settings. Are you now accepting their current policy settings? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: I don’t know if I have done that, Greg. I have not – I’ve left the Victorian government to do what they think is best for the Victorian people. My – the only thing I would point out, though, is what I said before, is the further you have to transport any commodity – and gas is one of those things – it will cost more. And right now, Victoria and New South Wales have benefited, actually for a number of years, benefited from cheap gas because it was a byproduct of the oil industry in the Bass Strait, and it was close to their industries and their consumers. Now that’s changing and the role of gas is changing. It’s important to acknowledge that while also seeing how it can be used while driving down emissions through the safeguard mechanism in that overarching imperative to reach net zero by 2050. 

GREG JENNETT: Okay, so by that argument, is it more or less likely that import terminals – that is gas shipped around the country or even in from overseas – will be needed in Corio Bay or in Port Kembla where projects are on the books – not fully finished but on the books? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yeah, and there are import terminals. You’re right, projects are out there and being looked at and some are even being built. And import terminals probably will be a really important part of the supply side of this, there being so much ability to get gas in the offshore areas of Western Australia and the Northern Territory. But having said that, again, and it’s like piping gas from Queensland to the southern states, import terminals and transporting LNG is costly. So not only if you think of the vast distance you would need to get from the offshore fields of Western Australia to New South Wales or Victoria, you also have to freeze that gas to liquify it and then you have to regasify it when it gets to – and all these things cost more money. So the best thing to do would be there to be less need to use gas so we don’t have those emissions. But while we are on that journey we need to have this discussion about how we enable supply to come online closer to the demand. And that might be Narrabri. There might be other fields in New South Wales as well. But also the Queensland fields are very important as well. I just want to make the point that we want it to be affordable gas for people, and to do that you’ll simply need more of it. But it has to be done responsibly. 

GREG JENNETT: Okay. 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: We really want to make that very clear. 

GREG JENNETT: All right. Now, you mentioned there the intensity of liquifying natural gas. In fact, that process accounts for 8 per cent of Australia’s total emissions – 37 million tonnes of CO2 in liquification. Does that mean that carbon capture and storage is central to all future gas developments? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, even current gas works right now, CCS is being deployed to capture that carbon. And it is a high producer of carbon emissions, no doubt about it. The process itself uses a lot of gas to generate the electricity to do that. So, various facilities are looking at how they electrify that system so that they don’t have to use more of that gas to produce the LNG. And they’re actively doing that, and that’s a lot of work. The other way you can reduce emissions from the process is to reduce safely the amounts of venting and flaring that happens at these facilities. And that’s one of the actions that is in the Future Gas Strategy, and we’ll be speaking with Industry about how we can make sure that you only vent and flare that CO₂ when it’s – for absolutely appropriate safety reasons. 

GREG JENNETT: Right. 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: So that’s a really good first cab off the rank in reducing the emissions of the industry itself. 

GREG JENNETT: Okay. Since we’re talking carbon capture and storage and since you are there in Rocky, we spoke to your colleague Murray Watt on the program yesterday about something that’s not related to gas at all but to coal mining. This is the Glencore proposal in the Darling Downs to do carbon capture and storage, driving it down into the Great Artesian Basin. Now, Murray Watt is deeply sceptical, based on feedback from farmers there in Rocky. The Queensland Premier has said it’s unlikely to meet the environmental tests, this particular project. Do you agree that that is on shaky ground? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Well, it’s a matter before the courts at the moment. So I’m not going to go into the detail. But I will make a commentary about contested land use. And the thing about whether it’s CCS and agricultural operations or it’s other mining operations and agricultural work, we need to make sure that they do work together. And in instances where there is a clash – and it sounds like there certainly is here – well, it’s sensible to look at it because no one wants to be where they’re not welcome in terms of an industry. So, you know, I’m sure that will go through the courts, it will go through the process. The Queensland state government quite rightly has their environmental process, and I have no doubt they will look at it as well. But I would remind everyone, this was a decision to take it away from the Environment Minister at the time by the Environment Minister herself at the time, Sussan Ley. So, you know, we’re dealing with a problem someone else has kind of set up for us. And – but, you know, we’ll go through proper processes, as we always do, because we saw what happened in the last government when Ministers spoke about things in wild terms. We then have an apprehended bias which then really rips the rug out of administrative decision-making, and it’s no good for the country to do. 

GREG JENNETT: I understand that. Just finally, do you see merit in it based on what you understand and have read about the Glencore Proposal? 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: I really – I couldn’t comment on that specific project. But I do see merit in CCS in places where it works and can work well and it’s not contested as much as this project obviously is. But I would say, it can never be – CCS can never be – the only solution to climate change or emissions from the gas industry. The gas industry knows that. I tell them that all the time. We need to do – make sure the safeguard mechanism works properly so that they drive down emissions. We need to make sure that there is proper abatement where that’s possible. So, you know, the industry has got a really important role to play here. And this is for our energy security in Australia but also for international partners and friends in the region that are also trying to decarbonise their economies. 

GREG JENNETT: All right. Well, it is a good, clear read, the gas strategy, I’ll say that much for it, Madeleine King. And we really appreciate you taking some time away from Beef 24 there in Rocky. We’ll let you go and enjoy what’s left of it for you. 

MINISTER MADELEINE KING: Yeah, it’s a real pleasure. Thank you, Greg.