TOM CONNELL, HOST: Welcome back. Well, the government is aiming to capitalise on the growing artificial intelligence industry, or AI. It's developing a National AI Capability Plan to bolster skills and unlock further investment in the sector, said to contribute $600 billion to Australia's GDP by the end of the decade. Joining me now is Science and Industry Minister Ed Husic, who’s in Singapore to sign a Memorandum of Understanding on AI cooperation. Thanks for your time. So, an amount's been announced today. Look, it's a decent whack, a billion dollars. But this is huge, isn't it? I mean, where you are in Singapore, I think of Silicon Valley. Can we hope to compete with relatively small amounts of money?

ED HUSIC, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SCIENCE: Hey, Tom, good to join you on this really important topic. I think when you look at what Australian research and AI is doing, the way it's been recognised. I've just met with representatives from Nvidia who've been talking so glowingly about Australia's research capabilities in AI. We've got a lot to work with. The issue is translating that in an industry sense. It's why the Albanese government wants to put together an AI Capability Plan, looking at what we need to do in terms of mustering not just government investment backing, but private sector involvement as well, building skills around AI use, translating what we come up with, with our research and building economic resilience. Four core ingredients for this National AI Capability Plan so we're not left behind. We have the capability to be able to get this done. We've not really been coordinated. No government's really thought deeply about how to do it and we don't want to drop the ball and miss this great opportunity for us to supercharge our economy.

TOM CONNELL: We know that there are pretty specialised AI jobs, if you like, in the technology. I'm just wondering how broad you think it would be. I was hearing a story today that a uni student was saying they used it and it was like a personal assistant. I mean, I'm in my 40s. I've got no idea how to operate it. Is it as broad as computers came, everyone needed to adapt because it's coming to your job? Or is AI a bit more specialist and you almost don't notice it coming into your job, if you know what I mean.

ED HUSIC: Well, there are a number of things that have to be brought together, but to the heart of your question, you're relating to your own experience. The fact that people know that AI is a powerful tool but don't know how to use that tool is one of those things we need to address in developing a National AI Capability Plan. How do we skill people up so we get the most out of the technology? And importantly, how do we get - build the number of Australian firms that are making the AI products that can help us do our jobs easier? We have about 650 in the country at the moment. We can definitely grow that. And so that is what we do need to look at. Making sure that not only the end user is able to use the product as well, but that we've got the skills in the workplaces, we've got the firms that are growing and we've got the investment to help that growth as well.

TOM CONNELL: And what about jobs? Obviously, every technology has the same thing. It creates jobs, it takes some away. It's always a bit of fear around it. How do you square that with the labour movement? Because some of the jobs will be very much unionised workforces. How do you sort of make sure you don't put labour people out? Because that's a possibility, isn't it, that some people at a certain age will struggle to retrain because of AI?

ED HUSIC: And again, that is another feature of what we want to be able to achieve in the AI Capability Plan that we want to develop, which is to look at the impact on work, how we have people, how we look at the impact on jobs, how we bring people along on this. I often say to industry, we need to be able to use technology to improve productivity and the strength of those firms, but you just can't bring it in all of a sudden without thinking about the impact on your workforce. Got to be able to bring people together on this so that everyone realises the benefit, it's not just a few. And that is going to be important work. We have gone through ways of automation as a country, particularly through agriculture, manufacturing, and now we're seeing more types of jobs potentially impacted by technology, but also helped by it. We need to think ahead. We just can't just do this on the spot and hope for the best. We don't want to cross our fingers and just assume everything's going to work out right. There are some challenges, but if we get it right, big benefits for us.

TOM CONNELL: Maybe I'll just wait till the kids are a bit older. They can teach me how to do it. One of the big disagreements between Labor and the Opposition is around energy. But I want to drill down to energy usage because the Opposition says we won't need as much as Labor's predicting because green hydrogen won't take off. Now, within your industry, that's a possibility, surely. We know it exists, but at scale it's not taking off perhaps at the rate it was predicted. So, would you concede as a possibility it might not be a big industry in 2030s, 2040s?

ED HUSIC: I just want to make a number of points very quickly. The Coalition has yet again, in opposition, backflipped on what it thought was important in government. At the tail end of their government, they actually realised and twigged to the importance of hydrogen and started investing on it. Now they seemingly walk away from it at a time the world global community is investing to make this happen. You're absolutely right, there are some challenges with hydrogen at the moment. But the thing is you just can't give up on it. The process of developing technology is never straightforward and easy. It requires governments and business to work together to solve those problems and scale it up. And hydrogen, and particularly green ammonia will be crucial for another industry in Australia, steelmaking, that is planning longer term to be able to make steel with less emissions using green ammonia as part of that process. Important part of the hydrogen sector. So, for the Coalition to just give up on hydrogen development speaks volumes about where their heads at. They've learned nothing and they're actually ignoring global movements that will put us behind if we were to take up what they were thinking and all, if I can end on this point, all to justify an exorbitant eye-watering amount of taxpayer dollars that they want to shovel into nuclear at a point in time where the world is not investing in that technology.

TOM CONNELL: All right, just finally we're not far away from the summer break now. I know part of your answer will be, you know, working hard. I don't put my feet up. But what will you be doing over the holidays when you find a little bit of time to repose?

ED HUSIC: Everything that you just said. I just think this Christmas break and the new year break is great for everyone. It's been a challenging year, and being able to take time off, particularly with loved ones and family, really important from my perspective. I'm looking forward to doing just that. So, I'll be taking some time off with the family, reading a book or two, watching, catching up with a few shows I might not have watched through the course of the year. But again, it's just that time where everyone gets to be able to spend people their time with people that they care a lot about, and that's exactly what I want to do.

TOM CONNELL: Yeah, maybe catch the odd NBA game given those unfriendly hours in your normal job. Ed Husic, we'll catch you again in 2025. Thank you.

ED HUSIC: Good on you, Tom. Thanks for your time, mate.