GREG JENNETT: Okay. So, as we mentioned at the outset today, this is National Skills Week, which is the promotion of training and education with a view to strengthening industries and jobs in this country. That brings the industry and science portfolios very much into the frame, and the Minister federally is Ed Husic. He joins us now from Sydney. Welcome back, Minister.

ED HUSIC: Good afternoon.

GREG JENNETT: You’re calling for or releasing this afternoon for discussion input on a list of critical technologies or what you are calling critical technologies in the national interest. What’s the actual significance of making it onto that list? What does it carry with it?

ED HUSIC: I think a lot of people know, Greg, that there’s a lot of good that can be done with the application of technology to improve the nation’s wellbeing, but there are also some technologies that if not used in the proper way or with good intent, could be something that we do need to keep a close eye on. The Government’s got an important role to send a signal about those technologies, those critical technologies as they’ve been dubbed. There’s about 63 of them. But they’ve been grouped in roughly half a dozen or so different categorisations from AI to energy, transport, sensing technology, for instance – all designed to show that if we get the settings right in the way that we use technology, then we can improve the nation’s wellbeing. That’s the biggest thing we want out of this.

GREG JENNETT: And is that to reward universities who encourage people into those fields? Is it to stop the brain drain or is it all of the above?

ED HUSIC: I guess we’re trying to do a number of things. One is to send a signal across Government and business and academia about what we value or what we rate as critical technologies, so we can get people thinking around that. There’s also longer-term thinking about what are the things that we need to do to sidestep risk with some of these technologies as well. You know, for example, there’s been a lot of thought given about the way in which AI, artificial intelligence, gets used. In some cases it’s been great in, for example, helping fast‑track the development of new medicines, but the way that you set that up, you need to make sure – in some cases there’s been developments of antibiotics that AI has been able to find way quicker than human researchers because it can power through all that data, but has it been set up to come up with an antibiotic that’s not toxic to humans? I mean, these are valid questions. So, the ethical frameworks, the design frameworks, all of this is important, and we’ve got an important role as Government to send out those signals and also I think longer term too, Greg, what’s the way that Government, business and others can invest to see this technology grow on home soil, develop capability, create new jobs, improve wellbeing?

GREG JENNETT: Yes, well, it’s that crossover isn’t it into investment and jobs you can see feel and observe on the ground. Do you see it as feasible that we might have, for argument’s sake, an EV, an electric vehicle industry that re-sprouts here in Australia?

ED HUSIC: Well, I think, if I may say, I think we should be sort of – how can I put it? – aggressively ambitious when it comes to EV because the complexity is different in terms of putting an EV, electric vehicle, together compared to an internal combustion engine. So, there are opportunities there. I think we have one of the great stores of critical minerals on the earth and rare earths on the planet, but, you know, we send a lot of it offshore without generating the full benefit and value for Australia. So, if we mine it here, we should make it here, which is why during the campaign we committed to working with the Queensland Government on the development of a battery manufacturing precinct, because if we do get it right, we can either open the door to EV manufacture because we’ve got a lot of the elements here to be able to do that, or to be able to create – and this is the big thing - there’s a huge demand for energy storage systems, Greg, for residential, commercial, industrial users. That will be a big job to be able to meet those storage needs of those longer term too.

GREG JENNETT: I think battery in all its forms at this point in time is dominated by a top five or top six of big global players. Have you actually engaged any of those firms yet to see what you can get going in places like Gladstone?

ED HUSIC: I took myself earlier in the year to visit two Tesla gigafactories in Reno and Austin. Austin is about if it hasn’t it may have already opened up but in Reno, for example, they already partnered up with Panasonic and just over half the employees there are Tesla employees doing the EV manufacture of different models and shapes and sizes. Panasonic make up the rest and they work really effectively together. I know our neighbours, having visited Indonesia with the PM back in June, and having met with relevant officials there, they’re looking at trying to ramp up battery manufacture for EV as well. And so, you know, we have started those discussions more as a process of discovery of understanding the elements, but working too, I can say, Greg, with the future battery industries CRC, Cooperative Research Centre here in Australia, based in Perth, and seeing their stuff. As a Government we’ve committed to the development of a national battery manufacturing strategy to bring the whole country together on this really important element of manufacturing.

GREG JENNETT: Now, one to watch and one we’ll stay in touch on. Just one other one in your portfolio, I think you’ve had remarks elsewhere today about the Modern Manufacturing Initiative that Scott Morrison had some form of veto power and over it was very lucrative at $828 million. You’re reviewing it. Does it come under the heading of the rorts and waste review that Jim Chalmers and Katie Gallagher have been conducting?

ED HUSIC: I guess I was concerned there were three red flags when it came to these grants. The first red flag was the fact that we had this litany of rorted programs and disrespect of taxpayer dollars that we saw by the Coalition more broadly. The second red flag was that the Prime Minister at the time, Scott Morrison, inserted himself as the decision‑maker in these industry or manufacturing grants. And the third red flag was that a program that had been announced in October 2020 by the then Morrison Government for manufacturing, there was literally nothing that went out of the door in 2020. Hardly anything went out in 2021 during the course of multiple national lockdowns. And then surprise, surprise! The bulk of the grants went out just before the federal election – third red flag. So, we have coming into Government wanted to review those. We absolutely are committed to honouring contracts that have been signed, but a lot of the contracts hadn’t. And what was also interesting is that as much as the Coalition raced these announcements out before the federal election, they didn’t tell the unsuccessful applicants of which there are many, that they weren’t successful, and they’ve left that to the other side of the election. So, all the good news pre and all the bad news after – typical Coalition politicking when it comes to the use of taxpayer funds.

GREG JENNETT: Welcome to Government. That’s the downside of winning. But look, just breaking down that figure, just trying to get some estimation of the envelope that you’re working in, of the $828 million, how much has not been contracted?

ED HUSIC: Oh, we’ll announce the full details when we have completed the review, but we are working through that and we’re conscious too that there are a lot of these firms, Greg, that were forced to work over Christmas. The last round was opened right before Christmas Eve and these were firms that had to contend to coming out of lockdown and then the Omicron wave and then were required to race, four weeks they were given, to put the applications in and then the Government sat on them and only announced them for their own sake rather than the national interest right before the election. So, we will release details in due course but we are working through it and we’re very keen to get that decision made as quickly as we can so we can get those projects, the ones that stand up, moving.

GREG JENNETT: Fair enough. Ed Husic, thanks for that update and joining us once again on Afternoon Briefing. We will talk to you again before too long.

ENDS